Home › Forums › Shidduchim › Dating with a divorced guy – when should I ask about his divorce?
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December 1, 2016 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #618761LavenderMember
I’m dating with a divorced man, tomorrow we are having our 4th date. I really would like to ask about why did he get divorced but I’m not sure when and how should I bring it up. He briefly mentioned his kids and his ex, but I still don’t really know anything about it. Also it seems they divorced around 5-6 years ago and I would like to know a bit more about why didn’t he get married since. Is the 4th date too early to discuss these things? Should I wait for him to bring it up or should I ask?
December 1, 2016 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1197012MenoParticipantMaybe he posts in the Coffee Room and he’ll respond here. Then you won’t have to worry about bringing it up on a date.
December 1, 2016 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #1197013WinnieThePoohParticipantIf there is a shadchan between you, this is the type of question you ask ask him/her, who can find out more directly from the guy.
If not, you have to take cues from him. He already mentioned his ex and kids, so probably does not mind talking about them, and may even be wondering why you have not asked yet.
This is an important issue and should be raised earlier rather than later.
As to why he did not get married since- don’t hold that against him, it is not so easy to get remarried, and it could very well be that he needed a recovery time before he started dating again. Those years would have been time for wounds to heal, for new family dynamics to work themselves out, for self-improvement to be ready for a new marriage.
December 1, 2016 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #1197014Trust 789MemberYou should have found out from others at least partially before you agreed to meet him. A shadchen may or may not be honest. Your question whether you should bring it up yourself or wait for him to ask is worrisome. This is your life you’re talking about! If you’re always this timid, you need to see a therapist. I hope I’m not offending you by saying that. The forth date is certainly not too soon to ask. He shouldn’t mind your questions, and if he does it’s a giant red flag.
December 1, 2016 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #1197015iacisrmmaParticipanttrust789: I don’t believe that this is a case of a person being timid.
December 1, 2016 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1197016WinnieThePoohParticipantHearing from the shadchan or people who know him is important, hearing from him directly is also important- especially how he deals with the aftermath of the divorce now, which will be very relevant to anyone he wants to marry.
I don’t think Lavender is being timid, just wanting to know when is the right time to ask very personal questions without risking a relationship that may not be deep enough yet to handle such big issues. Again, I think a shadchan is a good resource for finding out what the other side is thinking and what he is ready for and whether it is appropriate to ask him directly at this point.
But I do have a feeling that he is really itching to talk about it, but doesn’t know if you are ready.
December 2, 2016 1:18 am at 1:18 am #1197017Abba_SParticipantI would start by asking him about his relationship with his kids. Once he starts talking about them eventually the ex-wife who has custody of them will come up. You have to realize that as long as she has custody of his children there will be a relationship with her and he will be going over there. You need to know how much is his alimony and child support because most of his income will be going toward that and you may end up supporting him. As to what caused the divorce he will blame it on her and the ex will blame it on him and the truth maybe some where in between.
December 2, 2016 1:35 am at 1:35 am #1197018HealthParticipantMeno -“Maybe he posts in the Coffee Room and he’ll respond here”
If he does, one thing I can tell you – it’s not me!
December 2, 2016 2:20 am at 2:20 am #1197019147ParticipantAbba_S’s advice is incredibly smart and on the ball.
… But in the final analyses Lavender, please do bear this in mind:- This man you are dating wasn’t the problem, The real problem/culprit is today’s “paper plate throw away society” syndrome, and clearly the man you are dating isn’t going to solve this ongoing trend and crisis.
December 2, 2016 4:18 am at 4:18 am #1197020LightbriteParticipantI like Abba_S’s suggestion:
“I would start by asking him about his relationship with his kids. Once he starts talking about them eventually the ex-wife who has custody of them will come up. “
Also, take note about the way he talks about his ex. Tone. Whether it’s pleasant or etc qualities. That may give you a glimpse of his outlook on women in general too. IMHO, even if things went sour, besides venting, hopefully there is a lot to appreciate.
Talking about his children is good. You have the right to ask and it shows that you care and understand that they are a big part of his life. It’s a smart way to lead into learning more.
Though, maybe on the other hand, he wants to have a solid relationship with you before talking about them. Either way, it could allow him the chance to open up more and show more of himself b’esrat Hashem.
B’Hatzlacha!
December 2, 2016 5:25 am at 5:25 am #1197021Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantLavender – don’t ask him about the divorce. I think that’s rude. Wait for him to bring it up. A fourth date may be too early to expect him to bring it up.
I agree with Trust789 that you should have looked into this before going out. But it’s not too late – you can speak to references at any point. You probably won’t have time before the 4rth date, but as soon as possible, you should call his references or other people who might know about the divorce.
It’s generally best to speak to a Rav who was involved with the divorce. You do want to try to make sure to speak to people who know the story, are objective and who will be careful not to unneccesarily shmear the wife.
One Rosh Yeshiva whom I once called to ask about a divorce just told me that I have nothing to worry about. He didn’t want to speak unnecessary LH about the ex-wife. I was very impressed by this.
It is very unfortunate that when divorced people are in shidduchim, it becomes necessary for everyone to be talking about them, so one has to be careful about hilchos LH and not saying anything unnecessary. At the same time, it is VERY IMPORTANT to check things out as thoroughly as possible.
But you don’t want to speak to people who are just going to keep shmearing the wife unneccessarily (I remember one phone call where I had no choice but to remove the phone from my ears until the person finished talking).
Of course, since you are going on a fourth date, it is more relevant for you to have more information at this point than if you were going on a first date, so all of this is less of an issue, and you should be checkiing things out pretty thorougly.
December 2, 2016 5:29 am at 5:29 am #1197022Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant“But in the final analyses Lavender, please do bear this in mind:- This man you are dating wasn’t the problem”
Maybe, maybe not. Many people get divorced because of abuse issues, so you have to make sure. Also, even if it was just personality issues, it is important to find out, because you may also have a problem with those same personality issues.
Even if the issue is our throw-away society, you have to make sure it won’t happen again. There are many men who are twice-divorced, although there are also many men who have wonderful second marriages.
December 2, 2016 5:31 am at 5:31 am #1197023Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantWhen I check out divorced guys, I usually try to ask if he pays child support. You don’t want to marry a guy who doesn’t pay child support! Unless there are extenuating circumstances – like if his wife won’t let him see the kids (but then you also have to check out why she won’t).
December 2, 2016 5:44 am at 5:44 am #1197024LightbriteParticipantlilmod ulelamaid: What are the benefits of dating someone who has been married before?
Hopefully he has grown from the past relationship, has more realistic expectations, etc.
They say that an older single may be more fixed in his/her ways. I wonder if someone who has been divorced is more flexible to life’s unpredictability?
Obviously this is generalizing so I don’t expect any accurate answer. Just wondering based on your personal experiences, perspective.
December 2, 2016 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1197025Abba_SParticipant“When I check out divorced guys, I usually try to ask if he pays child support. You don’t want to marry a guy who doesn’t pay child support!”
Here in New York, HRA the Social Service Agency will collect child support for a nominal fee, if you are not on a government program, otherwise it’s free, hunting them down and collecting the child support. I think most states have similar programs, it gets a lot of people off government programs and saves the taxpayers millions of dollars a year. It’s usually garnished off the payroll check so not paying child support is not an option unless they are paid in cash (off the books). So unless the dead beat dad lives and work outside of the US he will be paying child support. Likewise, he can’t avoid child support payment just because he wasn’t granted visitation rights that he was entitled to.
Lavender – You need to see how your boyfriend interact with his children and their mother. This will show his true feelings rather then try to find out who was at fault. You need to meet the children in order to know if they will accept you or consider you to be the evil stepmother. You will also need to have a good relationship with the ex wife as she can make your boyfriend’s life and if you marry him you life as well, a living hell, as long as she has custody of his kids.
I don’t mean to scare you away from this relationship, I just am telling you things you should be aware of before committing to this relationship. May you find your true love and build a true house in Israel.
December 3, 2016 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #1197026WinnieThePoohParticipantI think a fourth date is way too early to be meeting his kids, nor is it fair to the kids to be meeting someone until it is a sure thing that she is going to marry their father. While the kids will be a big part of his life, they should not be involved in his decision to remarry or whom to date. No matter who it is, or how much they might like her, it will be hard for them to accept a new step-mother; you should not base your decision on whether to continue dating him or marrying him on their reaction, but whether you can handle a long-term challenge, because it will be.
December 4, 2016 1:31 am at 1:31 am #1197027lesschumrasParticipantLavender, why are you asking total strangers for advise on an important life decision? Would you walk up to a stranger on the street and ask?
December 4, 2016 4:33 am at 4:33 am #1197028Abba_SParticipant“I think a fourth date is way too early to be meeting his kids,”
I just asked that on the fourth date you (Lavender) ask if you can meet the children. If your boyfriend picks up his cell phone and calls his ex and she allows you to come over immediately. You know he is on very good terms with his ex. What is more likely is that you will meet them the next time he has custody of them.
While the boyfriend’s decision to remarry is up to him, Lavender’s decision needs to take into consideration the following factors:
A)Child Support & Alimony- Before agreeing to marry him you must know how much he owes not only for this but for any other debts he may have. As even with your income the family maybe forced into bankruptcy and you will be obligated to pay whatever the court ordered even after your divorced. So you need to resolve this before consider marriage.
B) Children & Ex-wife- Having a good relationship should you marry him, is a deal breaker as they can make your life a living hell. Even starting off on good terms as the kids become tanagers they will become more difficult to raise. The ex can be an ally or your worst enemy and as long as she has custody of his kids she will remain connected to the family.
Failure to resolve these factors before deciding to marry is a recipe for disaster.
December 4, 2016 5:18 am at 5:18 am #1197029HealthParticipantAbba-S -“So unless the dead beat dad lives and work outside of the US he will be paying child support.”
Obviously you’re not a lawyer! Let me tell you a secret – there are millions of dead beat dads. All they do is move to a different state.
And even if they don’t move, they can stay out of jail – if they prove that they are indigent.
I just hope that no one listens to advice given in an anonymous blog!
December 4, 2016 6:48 am at 6:48 am #1197030LightbriteParticipantHealth +1
December 4, 2016 7:32 am at 7:32 am #1197031WinnieThePoohParticipantAbba_S your points are good ones, and I agree that bad relationships with the kids and ex can be a deal breaker or ruin a second marriage, and Lavender needs to know what she is getting in to. And finances must be discussed.
But considering that they have not even discussed his divorce and kids, it is too early to bring the kids into the picture or ask to meet them. When it is serious, she will meet them. I do not think it healthy for kids to be meeting every girl their father dates, only the one who will become their step-mother, and it seems that Lavender is not yet at that point.
even if all goes well, and they do reach the point when she meets the kids, I am not sure how much she will be able to tell by meeting them- as you say, dynamics will change as the kids get older, and even when they realize what it really means for their father to be married to someone not their mother, and have other kids with her who will get more of their father’s attention than they do… it is hard to predict how people, especially children will react. And the dynamics with his ex also may change if she is jealous that he is remarried, and she not, etc.
Better than how the kids or ex-wife responds, I think is how the father responds- when conflict arises between kids and new wife, whose side will he take? Will he be truly supportive of his new wife and her struggles to accept his kids and deal with his ex? Will she feel like the outsider when the kids are visiting, or will he present a united front of “we are the parents now” to his kids? How will he deal when the kids challenge his new wife’s authority?
I think these are important things to work out with him while dating, neither of them can predict or control how the kids or ex will behave, but they can work out how they will act and react to these situations, and that is ultimately what is important. Even if the kids or ex turns their lives into a living nightmare, if the father is truly supportive of his new wife and they can build a strong marriage, they can survive the nightmare.
December 4, 2016 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #1197033Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant“So unless the dead beat dad lives and work outside of the US he will be paying child support.”
I believe Lavender lives in Israel. I don’t know what the laws are here. I would imagine that there are always ways to get around it though. I know men in the US who didn’t pay child support, but that was years ago, and maybe things were different then.
December 4, 2016 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #1197034Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantAbba: “You will also need to have a good relationship with the ex wife as she can make your boyfriend’s life and if you marry him you life as well, a living hell, as long as she has custody of his kids.”
This is a very good point. Even though of course you have to take the guy’s side (if you marry him), you also want to make sure to maintain a certain amount of neutrality in terms of how you relate to the ex-wife. Being antagonistc to her will hurt your relationship with the kids and b’ezras Hashem,the future grandchildren whom you will be sharing with the ex-wife.
The second wife can actually be helpful in terms of neutralizing the situation and leading to a more peaceful situation in which the two sides are able to communicate more peacefully and civilly, which is important as B’ezras Hashem, there will be shared Simchas in the future. I have seen this happen.
December 4, 2016 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1197035Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantWinnie the Pooh: “But considering that they have not even discussed his divorce and kids, it is too early to bring the kids into the picture or ask to meet them. When it is serious, she will meet them. I do not think it healthy for kids to be meeting every girl their father dates”
+1
December 4, 2016 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #1197037Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantLB- I have been told by Rabbanim that in general, at my age, it is better to date guys were previously married. This is a general rule, there are exceptions, and everything must be taken on a case-to-case basis, imho.
I have known older single girls who married guys who were never previously married, girls who married guys who were divorced, and girls who married widowers. It seems to me that for girls in their 40’s, marrying someone divorced is the most common scenario.
December 4, 2016 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #1197038HealthParticipantWtP -“Even if the kids or ex turns their lives into a living nightmare, if the father is truly supportive of his new wife and they can build a strong marriage, they can survive the nightmare”
That’s funny! You’re implying that only after that there’s another woman involved will things turn sour! I got news for you, you obviously have never been divorced, things can only get better if the father gets remarried.
Well, do you have s/o for me?
December 4, 2016 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #1197039WinnieThePoohParticipantNo health, that was not what I was saying, B”H I have never been divorced, but I know people who were, so this is not coming from nowhere. What I was trying to say, I guess not clearly enough, is that even if the divorce was amicable, and everything is smooth in terms of custody and visitation etc, the dynamics can change when one party remarries- things will be better IY”H for the remarrying father and his new wife, but not necessarily for the ex-wife. so as much as Lavender can check out what the relationship with the kids and ex are now, it does not mean that it will stay that way, and she should not have any illusions that things will be smooth sailing in such a complex situation.
Sorry, I wish I had someone for you, but my friends all have issues, I don’t think you would want to date them (think Rabbit and his neurosis, Eyore and his lack of self-esteem, Tigger and his hyperactivity…) Besides, they’re all guys, except Kanga, and she has a kid (from a previous marriage???)
December 4, 2016 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #1197040WinnieThePoohParticipantI have noticed that we have gone on and on about marrying divorcees with kids, and I think we may have lost Lavender, the original OP, somewhere back there. This may have been more than she could chew, I hope our good intentions have not scared her off. Can you update us Lavender if any of this was helpful?
December 4, 2016 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1197042HealthParticipantWtP -“Besides, they’re all guys, except Kanga, and she has a kid (from a previous marriage???)”
Well – does she or doesn’t she?
December 4, 2016 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #1197043Abba_SParticipantI believe Lavender lives in Israel. I don’t know what the laws are here. I would imagine that there are always ways to get around it though. I know men in the US who didn’t pay child support, but that was years ago, and maybe things were different then.
The old days of getting away with being a Deadbeat Dad-Mom are gone at least in New York State. Their licenses are suspended and the state is coming after them and collecting child support. Miss one payment and they will garnish all future payments from your paycheck. Getting a job outside of the state doesn’t help because your employer must check your social security number to verify you are legal, informing the IRS who inform the state who then garnish the child support from your paycheck. Being caught driving with a suspended license will result in them being arrested and requiring someone to come down and drive their car from the police station.
I don’t know where the OP is currently living nor do I know the ages of the children. I believe Israel has similar laws and what is happening is they flee the country, sometimes coming to the US. In Israel the ex has to hire a lawyer or use Legal Aid to collect which isn’t as effective.
Why is it needed to discus the divorce. It’s highly unlikely she will ever find out the truth, the husband will blame the wife and the ex will blame her husband. I already said that on the fourth date she should ask about the children and while discussing the children the divorce might come up. If she doesn’t ask to meet then children on the fourth date then when? Remember he probably doesn’t have custody so it may not be easy to arrange the meeting with the children.
December 4, 2016 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1197044WinnieThePoohParticipantHealth, I don’t think it will work out for you with Kanga, she is very overprotective of her kid. And I don’t know anything about Roo’s father.
December 4, 2016 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #1197045Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantHealth, I think there may be a halachic problem with marrying a kangaroo. Unless of course you are also a kangaroo.
December 5, 2016 12:03 am at 12:03 am #1197047HealthParticipantAbba-S -“Getting a job outside of the state doesn’t help because your employer must check your social security number to verify you are legal, informing the IRS who inform the state who then garnish the child support from your paycheck.”
You don’t know what you’re talking about!
The IRS doesn’t do anything, except not giving a return on income taxes owed to the Dead – Beat dad.
If the ex knows what state he moved to – her State can go to the other state and start proceeding over there.
“Miss one payment and they will garnish all future payments from your paycheck.”
Even in the same State – if you’re self-employed – there is no garnishment!
December 5, 2016 12:32 am at 12:32 am #1197048Lilmod UlelamaidParticipant“Even in the same State – if you’re self-employed – there is no garnishment!”
+1. I was going to point that out.
“Why is it needed to discus the divorce. It’s highly unlikely she will ever find out the truth, the husband will blame the wife and the ex will blame her husband.”
That’s why you have to try to speak to people who are relatively objective and not just the guy himself. Speaking to a Rav involved with the divorce is a good idea. And even if you will never know the complete truth, your hishtadlus is to ask reliable references.
If everyone you speak to tells you that he is a dangerous person and you should stay away, even though you have no way of knowing 100% that they are telling the truth and even though according to halacha you are not allowed to really believe it, you still have to stay FAR AWAY!
December 5, 2016 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1197049Abba_SParticipantEven in the same State – if you’re self-employed – there is no garnishment!
If he is self employed that means he is getting 1099s which is reported to the state and the IRS.Any entity that paid anyone over $1,000.00 per year must file a 1099 with the IRS and the state. Any bank account must have a social security number attached to it which is reported to the IRS & state. Many businesses wouldn’t deal with anyone with bad credit and no bank account. The state will go after whoever is paying the deadbeat as if they were the employer. So unless he is in a field that doesn’t have repeat customers they are going to collect by either taking it from the bank account or from one of the customers just like a garnishment.
The difference is that all of those who submitted 1099 will get a letter of garnishments saying that he owes the state $xx.00 in child support and requiring them not to pay him until the outstanding balance is paid.
December 5, 2016 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #1197050HealthParticipantAbba-S -“If he is self employed that means he is getting 1099s which is reported to the state and the IRS.”
What – you just can’t admit that I’m right?!?
Let’s say he owns a grocery store – the customers don’t file 1099’s.
Let’s say he does appliance repair – the customers don’t file 1099’s!
December 5, 2016 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #1197051Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantIt is possible for someone to be self-employed and not get 1099’s. Someone can be self-employed and not be receiving $1,000 a year from one entity.
Additionally, he can be unemployed and have someone else supporting him.
Also, how would the State even know that he is not paying child support unless his ex-wife reports him (and she may be reluctant to do so, or there may be halachic issues involved)?
Also, the issue could be that he managed to get away with making a (unfair) deal that he wouldn’t have to pay child suppport in the first place – maybe it was the only way he would agree to give a Get even though the Beis Din said that he should.
There are many ways that a person can be negligent in his responsibilities if he really wants to be (I am not talking about someone who really, really is trying his best, and is just not able to).
Of course, it will be hard to get to the bottom of it in any case, but I think it is kidai to at least ask. The answer may provide a red flag that would be worth looking into further.
December 5, 2016 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #1197052holy brotherParticipant(Excluding very extreme cases) You will seldom get to the bottom of why he got divorced, besides for above mentioned “his story” her story”, usually there is no black on white one word answer (relationships that are not properly maintained go down hill, not in one day). What you really want to know is, what has he learned from his past? How has he grown? Worked on his issues (takes 2 to tango). Even more important: How did he behave in divorce?! How does he behave in the face of conflict? And then of course how he deals with his ex and his relationship with his children. Preferably you should talk with his mentor/rabbi before you meet, and then the serious pinpointed questions should be developed as you meet, if there is something you see, then do your research. Research means asking mature people that know the story firsthand, in cases of conflict, if your going to ask his enemies, your better off dropping him, as you will never receive accurate information. Marrying someone with life experience that has learned from their mistakes gives you more chances for success (not addressing the many other possible complications of second marriage).
December 5, 2016 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #1197053holy brotherParticipantAs far as when to bring this up: The question should not be based on the number of dates, rather the point of relationship, and other variables. If there is something serious you suspect you must deal with it before the relationship get’s serious, otherwise you are hurting everyone. A basic picture of his divorce is mandatory before you meet, and then intuitively following up based on what you see.
December 5, 2016 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1197054Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantLavender, we haven’t heard from you in a while. How is it going?
December 5, 2016 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #1197055Abba_SParticipant“What – you just can’t admit that I’m right?!?
Let’s say he owns a grocery store – the customers don’t file 1099’s.
Let’s say he does appliance repair – the customers don’t file 1099’s!”
OKAY YOU ARE RIGHT. But please explain how he can open a grocery store which is licensed by either the state, city or county if state law mandates the suspension all government licenses for deadbeats. How does he pay suppliers, landlord and staff without bank accounts. The same applies to an appliance repair business which must be licensed by the New York City or the county at least for Long Island. How does he go to repair jobs if his drivers license is suspended.
An easier way is to move to Canada and the deadbeat can earn a normal living. But he still has to live in fear of the State tracking down. There was a case in Israel and they tracked him to Texas and sued him and the US and Canada has a closer relationship.
December 5, 2016 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #1197056Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantAbba- it is possible to work off the books. When I lived in the US, I was self-employed and I could have easily not declared my income and not paid taxes. Of course, I wouldn’t do that, but if I had wanted to, it would have been possible.
December 5, 2016 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1197057Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantAnd I worked from the house so I didn’t need a car, so a suspended license wouldn’t have affected me.
December 6, 2016 12:40 am at 12:40 am #1197058HealthParticipantAbba_S -“But please explain how he can open a grocery store which is licensed by either the state, city or county if state law mandates the suspension all government licenses for deadbeats.”
I didn’t say Open, but owns one!
“How does he pay suppliers, landlord and staff without bank accounts.”
Easy; credit cards, money orders.
“The same applies to an appliance repair business which must be licensed by the New York City or the county at least for Long Island.”
I didn’t say Open, but owns one!
“How does he go to repair jobs if his drivers license is suspended”
Hires a driver. Takes car services, taxis, buses.
December 6, 2016 10:18 am at 10:18 am #1197059Abba_SParticipantAbba_S -“But please explain how he can open a grocery store which is licensed by either the state, city or county if state law mandates the suspension all government licenses for deadbeats.”
I didn’t say Open, but owns one!
Okay. How does he own one of these businesses when his licenses to operate either of these businesses are suspended. If caught operating with a suspended license he will be closed down and fined.
“How does he pay suppliers, landlord and staff without bank accounts.”
Easy; credit cards, money orders.
This would be very expensive and time consuming making it unprofitable. Because of the large amount of money involved money laundering maybe suspected. Also he will have to keep large sums of cash on hand making him a prime target for robbery.
“How does he go to repair jobs if his drivers license is suspended”
Hires a driver. Takes car services, taxis, buses.
This cuts into the number of jobs he can take and is an added expense making the business less profitable.
December 6, 2016 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1197060HealthParticipantAbba-S -“Okay. How does he own one of these businesses when his licenses to operate either of these businesses are suspended. If caught operating with a suspended license he will be closed down and fined.”
The licenses wouldn’t be suspended, because licenses are issued by the city, not the state!
“This would be very expensive and time consuming making it unprofitable. Because of the large amount of money involved money laundering maybe suspected.”
Paying by credit card is not expensive or time consuming.
Even paying by money orders, the P.O. charges less than a dollar for one.
“Also he will have to keep large sums of cash on hand making him a prime target for robbery.”
All grocery stores have a lot of cash. It’s called a cash register!
“This cuts into the number of jobs he can take and is an added expense making the business less profitable.”
Why does it cut into the amount of jobs he can take? If he hires another professional to do the driving, he can take on more jobs!
And even if it’s an added expense, it’s probably less than the amount he’d have to pay for child support.
December 6, 2016 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1197061Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantHealth +1.
Additionally: “Also he will have to keep large sums of cash on hand making him a prime target for robbery.”
He probably doesn’t make a lot of money. That is why he is not paying child support.
“Hires a driver. Takes car services, taxis, buses.
This cuts into the number of jobs he can take and is an added expense making the business less profitable.”
1. If he lives in EY (which he does, in Lavender’s case),many people don’t have cars and rely on busses. They are not expensive. There are also places in the US where you can rely on public transportation.
2. Nowadays, a lot of people work online.
3. If he lives in EY (which he does) since everyone lives in aparment buildings, you have many people living within a small area, so he may be able to work within his community and walk to each job. I know a plumber who does this, and I’m sure there are many other plumbers and electricians who do this.
4. He can have a job that involves all of his customers coming to him.
5. If he has a job that involves earning a lot of money per job it might be worthwhile to take a taxi.
“Okay. How does he own one of these businesses when his licenses to operate either of these businesses are suspended. If caught operating with a suspended license he will be closed down and fined.”
Many people own businesses without licenses.
Another answer to all of the above questions is that he may not have a job at all. He may be learning full-time. There have been divorced guys who were suggested to me who were learning full-time. Often, those were the cases where it concerned me that they weren’t paying child support.
December 6, 2016 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #1197062Abba_SParticipantAll grocery stores have a lot of cash. It’s called a cash register!
While they have that days cash receipts at the end of the day it goes into the safe and deposited the following day. The deadbeat doesn’t have a bank account. Also the state can confiscate the business and sell the business to pay past and future child support.
Okay. How does he own one of these businesses when his licenses to operate either of these businesses are suspended. If caught operating with a suspended license he will be closed down and fined.”
Many people own businesses without licenses.
Until they have an unhappy customer who reports them to the government. Basically they are running a cash business off the radar, taking small jobs that big contractors don’t want, and at the most grossing $25,000-$50,000 assuming he is in demand and netting $15,000-35,000.00. They don’t realize that in a few years they will owe tens of thousands of dollars which they can’t pay. They can’t get a job and have a normal live. The same state that is hounding him for child support is providing his health insurance and probably welfare benefits and this is how he will sustain himself for the rest of his live. He can never own a house or save for retirement.
December 7, 2016 1:20 am at 1:20 am #1197063HealthParticipantAbba_S -“While they have that days cash receipts at the end of the day it goes into the safe and deposited the following day. The deadbeat doesn’t have a bank account.”
So he keeps it in the safe!
“Also the state can confiscate the business and sell the business to pay past and future child support.”
If the State knows about the business!
Do you really think all Dead – Beat Dads have to leave the State that they live in?
There are millions of Dead – Beat Dads and most stay where they are!
December 7, 2016 10:14 am at 10:14 am #1197064Abba_SParticipant“Also the state can confiscate the business and sell the business to pay past and future child support.”
If the State knows about the business!”
The state knows about the business from past year tax return and social security number, this is how law enforcement tracks people down. Even if the state didn’t know the wife whose looking for child support would tell them.
“Do you really think all Dead – Beat Dads have to leave the State that they live in?
There are millions of Dead – Beat Dads and most stay where they are!”
Most are unemployed, collect welfare or work off the books.
So he keeps it in the safe!
After a while he will need a larger safe and holding millions of dollars. Operating a business like this is very difficult without a bank, getting change for the cashier each day or cashing checks and accepting credit cards are hard without a bank account.
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