Davening Ari; Tefillin Ashkenazi
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- This topic has 11 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by limnos yameinu.
March 14, 2017 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #619478ezrahoersterParticipant
Would there be anything wrong with davening Nusach Chabad and wearing normal Ashkenazi tefillin? (Inward wrap, double-daled knot on the shel rosh, and ksav Beis Yosef)
I am not Chabad, and I don’t live in a community (yet), but whenever I attend a shul it’s Chabad.March 14, 2017 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1226077MenoParticipant
There might be a problem davening Ari if that’s not your minhag, regardless of what kind of tefillin you wearMarch 14, 2017 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #1226078iacisrmmaParticipant
the type of tefillin has nothing to do with the nussach you daven. I daven nussacg Asshkenaz while I put on tefillin nussach sefard.March 14, 2017 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1226079DaMosheParticipant
I agree with iacisrmma, your tefillin don’t impact how you daven.
That said, R’ Moshe zt”l paskened that if you daven Ashkenaz, you’re not allowed to switch to Sefard. I assume that includes Ari.March 14, 2017 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #1226080CTLAWYERParticipant
I’m a misnagid of Litvak and German lineage.
But I was a member of a shul that was a merger of a Nusach Lubavitch and masnagid shuls.
They had agreed to follow the Nusach Lubavitch (they were not Chabad or Hasidim) and put the Misnagid name first in the new (1952) synagogue name.
I always davened Nusach ashkenaz wearing ashkennaz tefillin.
BUT, it I davened for the amud, I had to daven from the Tehillat HaShem siddur according to the Lubavitch nusach. I had no problem doing soMarch 14, 2017 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #1226081JosephParticipant
“They had agreed to follow the Nusach Lubavitch (they were not Chabad or Hasidim)”
What is Nusach Lubavitch outside of Chabad chasidus?March 14, 2017 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #1226082torah is the bestParticipant
There is a teshuva from Rav Moshe Zatzal on this question, actually there it is regarding someone who davens nusach ashkenaz and puts on Nusach Ari Tefillin, Rav Moshe responds that it is not a problem at all.March 14, 2017 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1226083hujuParticipant
I have davened in a Chabad house at various airports. There were people wearing Ashkenaz, Sephard, and Chabad tefillin. The Chabad house had a supply of tefillin for first-timers that included Ashkenaz, Sephardic and Chabad. The rabbi would tell someone laying tefillin for the first time to follow the minhag of his father, and if the first-timer did not know, the rabbi would ask what region his non-American ancestors came from, and follow the prevailing custom of that region.March 14, 2017 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #1226084yytzParticipant
I heard my Rav say one should be consistent between nusach and tefillin (at least in terms of ksav). But assuming Torah is the Best is correct about Rav Moshe, then it’s OK.
In general, it’s not unusual for gerim and baalei teshuvah to end up with inconsistent minhagim. It’s best to have one consistent set of minhagim, but sometimes exceptions happen, especially during the process of becoming observant.March 15, 2017 12:24 am at 12:24 am #1226085CTLAWYERParticipant
In New Haven
Congregation Bikur Cholim B’nai Abraham was formed in 1884 by ‘ordinary’ Orthodox Jews primarily from the Pale in the Russian Empire.
Sheveth Achim Anshei Lubavitch was formed in 1898 by Lubavitch Chasidim from the village of Korinetz.
Both synagogues were on Factory Street.
Sheveth Achim followed the Lubavitch calendar and nusach. By WWII the descendants of the original members were European Traditional but not Hasidim anymore.
Factory Street was slated for demolition and urban redevelopment. Neither synagogue was vibrant enough to move and build on its own, so in 1950 they merged into Bikur Cholim Sheveth Achim Synagogue and bought an existing church in the western end of New Haven. They adopted the Lubavitch nusach, had separate seating, but no mechitzah.
In the mid 1980s, a new group of frum Jews had moved into the neighborhood and the shul moved to the right, installing a mechitzah. I became a member after this had occurred.
In the mid 1990s the building was far too big and the neighborhood non longer Jewish. It was sold and they bought another church even further west in New Haven. There was a parsonage building on the lot which was leased to a Chabad shaliach. The synagogue continued to age and membership dwindle. I no longer lived in New Haven. Today, the building has essentially been taken over by Chabad and the congregation has come full circle.
In CT, it is not unusual for failing orthodox synagogues to be taken over by Chabad, who gain a building and membership at no cost. It has happened in Woodmont (which had been a summer shul for 85 years) and in Fairfield (the Hungarian shul). The young Chabad couples don’t have the 100K salary requirements of most suburban orthodox rabbis.February 2, 2022 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #2057235limnos yameinuParticipant
Both Joseph and CT lawyer
Although lawyer explained the situation in Connecticut main point here is that everyone practically has forgotten about the Nusach Ari non chabad shuls. There were many people who lived near first Chabad Rebbe ztl who accepted his Nusach but did not become Chassidic. They developed what was called Nusach Ari synagogues and although many Chassidim davened by them, the bulk were not Chassidic.These synagogues flourished in Europe through the previous Jewish neighborhoods ( Brownsville,Old Crown Heights,East New York etc) in America,and, for various reasons, could not be reestablished in the New ones. Still, there are many people left who daven Nusach Ari but that’s all. Interestingly,one of the last to either change Nusach or close was the one in Crown Heights which obviously eventually became Chabad.February 2, 2022 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #2057236limnos yameinuParticipant
Interesting to note that the inward or outward wrap of no consequence whatsoever. Did you simply the custom of the sofrim to wrap in different direction. A Rebbe of mine wears Ashkenaz Tefillin and finds the outward wrap easier,so that is what he does. Though it did create the joke that Ashkenaz takes and sefardic gives
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