September 22, 2010 8:52 am at 8:52 am #592437diduMember
I learnt in sem that one has a certain achievment to attain before getting something from hashem. For e.g hashem may want 200 shmonia esreis from you before you get engaged. If you have already done that is it possible for you still not to have your bashert because hashem is also waiting for say, your sister to daven 10?
could hashem be holding something from you because of someone elses actions that needs improvment? that family memeber will also gain from you getting engaged, so can hashem wait for her to improve aswell? I know that we don’t know exactly what hashem wants from everyone but can a shidduch come just from you daveing for yourself or do you need other people’s teffilas aswell?September 22, 2010 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #698289
I think we should let Hash-m worry about running the world and we should just do what we gotta do, no sense in trying to understand the way things work.
So glad I did not go to your Sem…..September 22, 2010 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #698290HashemLovesMeMember
didu, i learned something like that too. in sem. don’t know which one you went to obviously. sorta along the same lines is why H-Shem could make a person sick chas v’sholom- all the ppl who know him may have to improve their davening/daven more, and that’s the only way to make those specific ppl do it (besides for the fact that H-Shem had decreed that that person be sick for wtvr reason)
like i said, not the same, but sort of along those lines. it made sense when i first thought it in my mind. if it doesnt make sense, just ignore me. it’s still early.September 22, 2010 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #698291theprof1Participant
That kind of stuff is ridiculous. Some sem teachers think that the only way they can inspire girls is by giving them ridiculous goals and the best carrot is a shidduch. If you daven you’ll get engaged, if you take challah 613 times, if you are diligent in making 100 brochos a day for 100 days. (by the way i’m being facetious. Please dont quote me). didu just be a good yiddish maidel. Daven what you have to daven when the time is. Oh and you can help your mother too. And when Hashem has decided the time has come for your shidduch, you will get engaged. Of course you can daven and say tehilim asking hashem for a quick and good shidduch. But don’t place your trust in segulos. Place your trust in pure Hashem.September 22, 2010 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #698292tzippiMember
I didn’t go to this seminary.
This may be true but this is the kind of thing that could lead to psychological disorder if obsessed about. Seriously. Track down the teacher who said this and have a heart to heart, you know, “Now that it’s nogeiah I’ve thought about this a lot and wonder if you could give me hadracha.” I think you need someone to bounce things off of IRL. Hatzlacha and may you be zoche to build your BNB soon, with the right one at the obviously right time.September 27, 2010 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #698293apushatayidParticipant
The teacher who taught this, should be severely reprimanded and threatened with firing if she repeats this to another student.
Hashem wants you to daven. Period. He doesn’t want you to keep a counter for each perek tehillim, for each shmoneh esrei or chessed that you do. If someone is ill, daven for them, again, without a counter. As to why that person is ill, that’s the ribbono shel olams business not mine or yours.September 28, 2010 2:16 am at 2:16 am #698294WIYMember
You may want to ask some Rav or Rebbetzin who knows these things to find out for sure. To me it certainly doesnt sound 100% correct. I think that on some level anything a person needs can be provided by them davening. however it is possible that to accomplish the zechusim you need for that request you may require 200 shemonah esreis.
Im not an expert but I have read in seforim and books on Tefillah that the reason we arent answered (and there are many) but a major one is because we simply arent davening correctly. Tefillah is a lot more complex than it looks and if done correctly works very quickly and very satisfactorily. Maybe you should read some books on Tefillah and then see if your Davening changes.September 28, 2010 3:19 am at 3:19 am #698295hashemsprincessMember
i dont know what sem you went to (who knows maybe we sat next to each other in class) but as far as i’m concerned i think you are correct. i was in sem last year and my teacher said the same thing. Hashem may want one person to say the tihillim twice to find thier zivug and someone else 100. But we dont know how much is our hishtaflus so we must do the best we can. And yes it may dipend on the tifelose of others as well but that is not our job to worry about. Also it may be that hashem is not waiting for someone elses tifeos but if that pefson davened it may speed up what ever u are daving for! Just keep on davening….Tifela is the key to everything…hashem is listening he is our father waiting for our tifelos…(it says in parshas birayshis that hashem didn’t bring rain until someone aked for it…Hashem wants us to call out to him…Also Remember that when u dont get what u want dont think that hashem is not answering you…Hashem may be answering but the answer is NO…and thats not a bad thing..hashem is sayingthat at the present moment what u want is not good for you although u may not understand it!
The more we daven the closer we are with hashem….so keep on davening…dont give up…And iyh you should find your zivug hagon bikarov mamash!September 28, 2010 3:25 am at 3:25 am #698296
I was scared to daven for a shidduch until I actually felt ready to get married – I was scared it would make it happen too fast.
To this day i wonder if I am wrong about this.September 28, 2010 3:41 am at 3:41 am #698297ckbshlMember
“Hatzur tamim po’alo” Hashem has cheshbonos for everything, & they are good for each person in totality. We may be at a loss to fathom why it is good at our current standpoints, however the ultimate goodness is assured. Consequently, we can daven, and others can daven on our behalf however if this wouldn’t be good for the person (or others and thereby not totally good) Hashem wont let it happen until the time that it is totally good for all parties. Now, part of making it good may be allowing a person to utilize their predicament to grow and thereby thrive form their challenge. Despite this, we the living are unable to know those cheshbonos & therefore need to act accordingly, by strengthening our emuna & bitachon in Hashem, for this may be the road block preventing the desired yeshua. A means to this end is tefila, where we directly beseech our father to aid us. Not that Hashem needs our tefilas, rather by going through the motions, we reinforce these feelings in ourselves thereby bringing us closer quantitatively to our father in heaven.
This brings me to interpret this seminary teachers comments of Hashem wanting a certain amount of tefilas- as Hashem wanting us to utilize this predicament to grow to a new level of ruchnius as an act of chesed to the person.
Thereby its also conceivable that this “greater good” may encompass that Hashem wants one to be the catalyst for another to also grow in ruchnius, and this would need to ultimately be good for both parties.September 28, 2010 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #698299diduMember
Hashems Princess: This sounds very familiar!!!!!!!May be we were next to each other in class…. Did you go to sem in england?September 29, 2010 1:48 am at 1:48 am #698300Midwest2Participant
This is a very strange thread. Whence this idea that you have to “buy” something from HaShem by giving the required number of Tefilas, perek Tehillim, etc.? You daven to get close to Hashem. You say Tehillim to grow in ruchnius. We trust that HaShem knows what’s good for us and will provide what He knows that we need, not what we may think we need at any given time.
100 brachas a day for 100 days and you’ll automatically get your shidduch? 613 Shmoneh Esrehs? There’s a name for this sort of thing – superstition. If they’re teaching this sort of thing in sem these days, it’s no wonder we have girls going OTD because they start thinking Yiddishkeit is meaningless. We have emunah and bitachon, and don’t try this weirdness of “forcing” or “buying” HKB’H to do what we want.September 29, 2010 2:37 am at 2:37 am #698301hashemsprincessMember
no i didnt go to sem in england lol… oh well sorry…. but maybe our teachers are related or friends or had the same teacher :)!
I dont think what “didu’s” teacher was trying to say that “that you have to “buy” something from HaShem by giving the required number of Tefilas, perek Tehillim, etc”…i just think her teacher was trying to say that everyperson has a certain amount of hishtadlus they have to do. For one person it could be 10 prakim of tihilim and another 10 times the amount! and of course we dont know how much we have to do so we just have to do the most we can. I dont think her teacher was forcing any one to do anything so pls dont put down any seminary’s. we must not construe her teachers words, i am sure she is a very special person!September 29, 2010 5:41 am at 5:41 am #698302smartcookieMember
You couldve made things easier and just Davened to Hashem to give you your bashert WHEN YOU ARE MATURE ENOUGH AND READY.September 29, 2010 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #698303
“This is a very strange thread. Whence this idea that you have to “buy” something from HaShem by giving the required number of Tefilas, perek Tehillim, etc.? You daven to get close to Hashem.”
I totally agree.
But, wasnt there that instance with Moshe Rabbeinu where Hash-m said that if he davened another tefilla He would have to let him into E’Y so he should stop? I dont think any of us is/or will ever be a Moshe Rabbeinu but, kinda sounds like the same thing…September 29, 2010 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #698304
smartcookie: I guess I would feel that it’s like davening to have good kids – while I would daven for it in the abstract, it’s not so “real” to me. Or davening for good health in my old age. Since I’m not in that stage of life, it’s hard for me to feel intense about, and if I do feel with kavana, it can sort of hurry it up b’ruchnius and that wouldn’t be the right time.
sacrilege: “V’eschanan” is the gematria of 515, the number of Tefilos Moshe Rabbeinu davened, and if he had gone into EY, then he would have built the BHMK and it couldn’t have been destroyed (or am I confusing this with something else?)
However by CHet Ha’Egel Hashem told Moshe Rabeinu to stop, so he knew it was being effective and continued davening. So how do we know what is the right thing to do?September 29, 2010 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #698305OfcourseMember
I think that this “Guilt trip” chinuch is really bad and turns many off. You could be Davening hundreds of Shmona Esreis and saying Sefer Tehillim hundreds of times, but if you smerked/snubbed the person not dressed as Tzniusdik as you, it might be worthless.
The older I get the more I see that Frumkeit isnt a black and white issue, measured strictly by the amount you Daven or learn. With increased life experience and maturity, thats hard to fathom.
Also Ive been taught that if people try to figure out the Cheshbonos of the One Above, Hashem tells them, come up here and Ill show you how limited your vision is…and brings them up.September 29, 2010 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #698306
“V’eschanan” is the gematria of 515, the number of Tefilos Moshe Rabbeinu davened, and if he had gone into EY, then he would have built the BHMK and it couldn’t have been destroyed (or am I confusing this with something else?)
Yea, no that is what I was reffering to, and Hash-m said if he would have davened 516 He would’ve had to let him into E’Y and then the whole BHMK thing. So that is kinda the same as forcing Hash-m to give you your Bashert (or any other thing) after X amount of Tefillos.
“The older I get the more I see that Frumkeit isnt a black and white issue, measured strictly by the amount you Daven or learn. With increased life experience and maturity, thats hard to fathom.”
Since leaving the sheltered world of BY and becoming more involved with all kinds of people I have come to realize the exact same thing, no matter how much BY and some circles would like you to think otherwise (and make you feel guilty for it)September 29, 2010 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #698307
Yep. That’s why I’m still nervous about davening.September 29, 2010 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #698309oomisParticipant
“if he had gone into EY, then he would have built the BHMK and it couldn’t have been destroyed (or am I confusing this with “
I learned that, too. And on that note, Everyone have a good kvitel.September 29, 2010 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #698310
I’m the furthest thing from a credible authority but, I dont think it is our job to focus on these things. Daven how you seem fit. Say Tehillim, if thats how you communicate, read the english, whatever. Hash-m knows whats right for you and He will give it to you in the right time not a second before and not a second after.
I think maybe this teachers lesson was taken out of context (hopefully, this was the case) if you think that you can C’V “trick” Hash-m into giving us things, lest we forget who is actually runing the world.October 3, 2010 6:50 am at 6:50 am #698311kapustaParticipant
I too disagree with this concept. Someone once told me that a persons davening is strengthened if its said in Lashon Kodesh, but what she didn’t say was that when a person is really really davening from the heart with tears, the language wont make a difference. (At least thats my thinking).
Say for (just) a minute that ABC needs to daven 200 S”E before meeting her bashert, does that mean if she davens only 199 times, she wont ever get married? What about if she davens 199 times, and finishes sefer Tehillim 50 times, is that not counted? What if she davens 200 S”E and her bashert davens all that he needs, what happens to him? This whole thing sounds a little funny to me. And since she will never know exactly how many tefillos she needs, isn’t the point to daven?
I think maybe we’re getting a little caught up in certain things. I’m not c’v saying a person shouldn’t daven, but if a person works on themselves to be the best potential marriage material, and just davens and davens some more, (IMO) thats the best thing for a shidduch.October 3, 2010 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #698312WIYMember
Maybe the concept is that a person needs the zchusim of X amount of tefillos shemonah esrei specifically so it can be 200 shemonah esreis is what the person needs. The Zchusim generated by tefillas shemonah esrei are not the same as tehillim.
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