Davening in a minyan with a different Nusach
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- This topic has 17 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 9 months ago by torahlishma613.
June 16, 2013 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #609674
If I daven ashkenaz, and I’m going to be in a sephardi shul, should i daven sephardi with the congregation or ashkenaz? (there is no option of an ashkenaz shul for this one time). ThanksJune 16, 2013 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #959926Derech HaMelechMember
As far as I’m aware, the rule of thumb is whatever you say quietly you do in your own nusach and anything out loud ie. kedusha etc you say in the Shul’s nusach.June 16, 2013 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #959927moishykMember
That sounds familier, because my camp davens ashkenaz and i daven nusach ari, and someone told me to say shmone esrei in ari and the rest ashkenez. But you can daven sfard with them.June 16, 2013 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #959928The FrumguyParticipant
Derech HaMelech has it correct according to Rav Moshe Feinstein, ZT”L. But not necessarily “out loud”, just those things which need a Minyan should be said Sephard.June 16, 2013 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #959929WolfishMusingsParticipant
As far as I’m aware, the rule of thumb is whatever you say quietly you do in your own nusach and anything out loud ie. kedusha etc you say in the Shul’s nusach.
That is my rule of thumb as well. I daven Ashkenaz, but the only time I’ll say something in Nusach Sefard is:
A. If it’s something the tzibbur says as a whole (i.e. kedusah, the second barchu in Ma’ariv, etc.)
B. If I’m the shliach tzibbur (I won’t daven for the amud in N. Sefard, but I will lain in a shul that does, and will say the kaddish after the kriah).
The WolfJune 16, 2013 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #959930
Thanks everyone. That’s what I thought as well but I wanted to clarify.
@Thefrumguy- Where does Rabbi Moshe Feinstein ZT”L say this?June 16, 2013 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #959931ChortkovParticipant
Derech HaMelech has it correct according to Rav Moshe Feinstein, ZT”L. But not necessarily “out loud”, just those things which need a Minyan should be said Sephard.
I saw R’ Moshe zt”l about a month ago, and I seem to remember that he says that all the things that require a Minyan should be said Sefard, but he also says that Psukei Dzimra (which does not require a minyan) should be said in the nussach of the shul, and only if one would get mixed up should one change to his own nusach, and in that case one should be careful not to say it loud.June 16, 2013 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #959932
yekke: He has 2 T’shuvos and never clearly says what constitutes “being said out loud”.June 16, 2013 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #959933The_Cool_JewMember
I saw R’ Moshe zt”l about a month ago,
Where did you see him?????
🙂 I know what you meant, I just couldn’t resist.June 17, 2013 3:06 am at 3:06 am #959934147Participant
I had a clear Pesak, that even Kedusha I say Nusach Ashkenaz with the exception of the 1st line of “Kesser Yitenu” which I say Sefard but even then after Kodosh Kodsoh Kodsoh I revert to Ashkenaz.
Pesukei dZimro is surely yur own Nusach of Ashkenaz and not the Shul’s Nusach of Sefard.
Long Tachnun, one can elect to retain Ashkenaz and say the 7 paragraphs before vaYomer Dovid as per Ashkenaz, or say vaYomer Dovid before the 7 paragraphs.June 17, 2013 3:25 am at 3:25 am #959935
The_Cool_Jew: He was having lunch with Elvis.June 17, 2013 4:48 am at 4:48 am #959936kkls45Member
I once heard that the Arizal says that if someone who is not sefardic davens in a sefardic shul, he should daven sefardic like them, but if a sefardic person davens in a shul that is not sefardic, he should still daven sefardic because the nusach of adut mizrach goes through all 12 gates of tefillah while the other nusachim each only go through their own gate.June 17, 2013 6:03 am at 6:03 am #959937yehudayonaParticipant
kkls45’s response is reminiscent of something I read in some Chabad writings, possibly in the front of the Chabad siddur. It said that Nusach Ari is the universal nusach. No big surprise there.
Am I correct in assuming that a ger gets to pick whatever nusach he likes?June 17, 2013 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #959938ChortkovParticipant
I think I once heard (he might say it himeslf, I don’t remember) that R’ Moshe is talking about Ashkenaz/Sfard. However no Ashkenazi should use the “Sefardi” nusach. Don’t know why, thoughJune 17, 2013 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #959939
yekke2: I would think the opposite is Mistaber. R’ Moshe is not such a fan of Nusach Sefard because it was invented much more recently.June 17, 2013 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #959940
147- you gave a good answer. But why don’t you say the whole kedusha in one nusach or the other? What is the point of switching?June 17, 2013 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #959941moishykMember
because its better to daven in ur nusach.June 19, 2013 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #959942
but he is saying to go from one nusach to the other. Why the switch in the middle?
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