Davening Mincha and Maariv Together

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  • #618853

    Joseph
    Participant

    Are there any restrictions regarding davening Mincha and Maariv together, without any break between the two tefilos?

    #1204767

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    What do they do in shul?

    #1204768

    sure. it needs to be at shkia time.

    i.e. it can’t be a 1:45 lunch time mincha & then go straight to maariv. it needs to be a before shikia mincha followed by maariv after which might be early but its at least after shkia as long as later after its dark everyone in the minyan repeats krias shma.

    #1204769

    Geordie613
    Participant

    Without going into the halachic reasons, and very, very basically – Firstly, maariv can only be davened after plag hamincha. Secondly, mincha and maariv have to be davened in two different ‘time zones’. A time zone here means, either of the opinions of plag hamincha or shkiah. So mincha before plag and maariv afterwards is the earliest time one may daven mincha maariv together. You can daven maariv early,but not in the same ‘time zone’ as you daven mincha. Of course, if you daven maariv before nightfall you have to say shma again after nightfall. Also, maariv before nacht is only permissible with a minyan.

    LuL, that is a huge question. ‘They’ do anything and everything, depending on who ‘they’ are.

    #1204770

    Joseph
    Participant

    Would holding by Rabbeinu Tam’s shkia impact the answer to this question?

    #1204771

    yehudayona
    Participant

    On Fridays in the summer, many shuls have mincha at a fixed time followed immediately by Kabbalas Shabbos. Sometimes you end up with both mincha and maariv in the same “time zone” (to use Geordie’s nomenclature). I know one shul that does this every day (not just Friday).

    I once needed to daven an early mincha when I was traveling. A little research revealed that a certain nursing home had a mincha that I could make. Much to my surprise, it was immediately followed by maariv even though it was long before plag. I was told that it was too difficult for many of the residents to make it to the shul later for maariv.

    #1204772

    Geordie613
    Participant

    Joseph, See the first tosfos in shas, i.e. Brochos 2a, where Rabeinu Tam holds that you may be yoitze shema (probably lechatchila) from whenever the earliest time for davening maariv is. We don’t pasken like that lemaase, but it certainly seems that R”T’s hakpodo was more on Melochos after Shabbos/Yomtov than everyday maariv.

    YY, It’s interesting that you mention Friday, as I asked Dayan AD Dunner of London if Friday is different. He explained to me that there are two reasons that it is different; in halachic terminology, why some are meikil on tarti d’sasri on Friday. Firstly, maariv on Friday creates its own time zone called Shabbos. So, there is no tarti d’sasri. And secondly, Maariv, is k’neged the haktoras eimurim, which was not done on Friday night. Nevertheless, more ‘Yeshivish’ communities are generally machmir to have mincha before plag/shkia and maariv afterwards.

    #1204773

    mik5
    Participant

    When davening with a minyan, it is common to have Mincha right before shkia, and Maariv right after shkia.

    This is fine, and so is the minhag, though there are 2 things to keep in mind:

    (1) Krias Shema MUST be repeated after nightfall (45-72 minutes after nightfall, depending on which opinion you go by – preferably, if at all possible, at least 72 minutes). A man who did not repeat Shema in this case has (according to most opinions) transgressed a grave sin, since reciting the Shema is an obligation from the Torah which may not be missed on any day of the year.

    (2) There is a preference to daven Maariv after nightfall as opposed to davening right away after shkia [Gra].

    Regarding whether one may eat prior to repeating Shema – it’s complicated. The most frum opinion is not to eat [a meal] prior to repeating it, but fruit would be OK. Other opinions would allow eating even a meal (for example, if he always says Shema before going to sleep, so we are not concerned that he will forget to say it this time, or because there are opinions that one is yotzi Shema any time after Plag Hamincha; we don’t pasken like that, but perhaps he could be lenient about eating since eating before you do a mitzvah is only a rabbinic restriction).

    But, of course, one must remember to repeat Shema after nightfall and may not rely on his earlier recital, since we are dealing with a (safek) chiyuv d’oraysa.

    #1204774

    catch yourself
    Participant

    It should be noted that – with the exception of Friday, along the lines of what Geordie613 said – you may only Daven Maariv before Shkiah if you always Daven Mincha before Plag. In other words, Tarti D’sasri is not limited to each day by itself.

    #1204775

    Geordie613
    Participant

    catch yourself, If I’m not mistaken, it’s punkt farkert. You can do it differently every day.

    #1204776

    catch yourself
    Participant

    Geordie613, with all due respect, you are mistaken.

    ?’ ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??”? ???? ?’ ????”? ????? ????? ??. There does not seem to be any debate about this.

    #1204777

    assurnet
    Participant

    See Sefer Ben Ish Chai ??? ? ???? ????? ???? ?

    He says according to the gemara should shouldn’t daven one after the other however now that the minhag has developed to do so those who do have what to be somech on. He clarifies you can only do it in a tzibur but not k’yachid.

    There are a fair amount of sefardi shuls in Israel that do this (apparently based on this Ben Ish Chai) and it’s incredibly convenient. As Mik5 mentioned though you have to be extremely careful not to forget shema b’zmana

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