May 27, 2009 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #647490GoldieLoxxMember
it is only right if u follow the rules. praying in the eisle during turbulance and making lots of noise is not a segulla for your prayers to be answered i think.
it can be done right sadly it usually is notMay 27, 2009 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #647491WolfishMusingsParticipant
my rebbe once said here is no problem of chillul hashem, there is only a problem of chillul Hashem if someone sees you doing something wrong, if you dou something that is correct it doesnt make a difference if a goy thinks your doing something wrong, IF ITS RIGHT ITS NOT A CHILLUL HASHEM,
Ah, so let me ask you this. We all know that you aren’t required to return ta’us akum. So, if the store owner gives you extra change, and he realizes it before you leave the store, do you think it’s not a chillul Hashem to not return the money, even though he will certainly make a scene in front of other people?
The WolfMay 27, 2009 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #647492
The Wolf – nice one!
I was once at a store where I bought a suit and 3 jumpers…don’t ask me how but they didn’t charge for the jumpers and I called up my Rov and he said that I shouldn’t give it back…
Not really Noigea but what you said reminded me of it…May 27, 2009 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #647493
And no- I’m not gonna tell you which shop it was…;)May 27, 2009 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #647494squeakParticipant
noitallmr, are you sure they were jumpers and not cardigans?May 27, 2009 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #647495cherrybimParticipant
Chaverim: “Some Jews are more embarrassed of yiddishkeit than are some gentiles”May 27, 2009 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #647496CRGMember
Rabbi Frand has said many times that if one has to daven on an airplane, you should daven by yourself remaining seated in your seat. Which is what he does himself when he travels and needs to daven on the plane. Getting up to try to form a Minyan causes a commotion that disturbs the flight crew as well as the passengers and is a Chillul Hashem. Just to note when I was flying back to America before Pesach my flight boarded about 10 minutes after Netz Hachama which was plenty of time to daven Shmonah Esre before getting on the plane and for some reason some people decided to daven on the plane. They made a mistake. It would have been even better to daven before Netz in the airport then to daven after on an airplane.May 27, 2009 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #647497chaverimMember
cherrybim: Sorry you can’t tolerate losing an argument on the merits. But it was JayMatt19 who testified earlier in this thread that Continental Airlines is kind enough to offer its kitchen for minyanim. Sorry to disturb your fantizations.May 27, 2009 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #647498
jax: my thoughts on it were that it was very obviously copy + pasted. there was a distinct lack of exclamation points 😉May 28, 2009 12:29 am at 12:29 am #647499
squeak- yeah pretty positive…how old dya think I am anyway??? Not telling you for privacy purposes but not old enough to start wearing cardigans I assure you!!!May 28, 2009 3:45 am at 3:45 am #647500ChachamParticipant
for your information i just flew to eretz yisrael on continental airlines. some 3 and a half hours into the 1050 flight from Newark was sunrise but i could not get to my tefillen because of turbulence. after that i wanted to daven as early as possible i asked another frum man about making a minyan. he told me he asked a few people who refused and the rest were sleeping . so i went to the kitchens and ASKED the flight attendant if he minds if i pray here. the continental attendant said he has no problem so i davened there and one by one the rest of the plane came there to davenMay 28, 2009 4:21 am at 4:21 am #647501
an open book: sweet! i did say i found the article, but yeah! 😉May 31, 2009 3:08 am at 3:08 am #647502cherrybimParticipant
Upon further research I found that while Continental does not have an official policy with regard to the kitchen minyan, Continental does make the back galley available for davening which makes Continental a lot more accommodating to Orthodox religious needs than ElAl, where davening is problematic.
An apology is therefore in order to chaverim and a yasher koach to JayMatt19 and Chacham for alerting us to Continental’s practice.
A guy voch and a gut’n chodesh.May 31, 2009 11:25 am at 11:25 am #647503JayMatt19Participant
As a side point. Often during the continental kitchen minyan a patron tries to come to the back to get a drink. The flight attendant politely tells them they will need to wait until after the service concludes.May 31, 2009 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #647504chaverimMember
Thank you cherrybim.
Thank you JayMatt19.
As a side point. Often during the continental kitchen minyan a patron tries to come to the back to get a drink. The flight attendant politely tells them they will need to wait until after the service concludes.
Wow, respect for yiddishkeit from the Umos Haolam. It would be nice to see some of our brethren respect yiddishkeit at least as much.June 1, 2009 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #647505Ish52Member
i never said that one can barrel over someone on his way to shul that is clearly wrong but to refrain from davening shemoneh esrei on an air plane just because some shmutz shikcsa thinks its strange thatz crazy who cares what they think of us do they care what we think of them nooooo, once again there is noothing wrong with doing what hashem asks us to do in front of goyimJune 1, 2009 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #647506WolfishMusingsParticipant
The question isn’t whether one should barrel over someone. The question is whether, absent a specific policy by an airline making accomdations (such as that may exist with Continental), should people form a minyan standing up in the back of the plane even if it interferes with the normal operations of the flight. No one says you have to miss shmoneh esrei. The question is – is it better to daven in your seat?
And, I noticed, you still did not answer my question above. Is the situation I discribed above not a chillul HaShem?
The WolfJune 1, 2009 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #647507
Ish52: from your post it seems that you’ve forgotten we are in Galus and even though yes we are not supposed to be ashamed of doing Hashem’s Rotzon we have to do it in a quiet and not showy manner because this is really the Goyims world at the moment at least until Moshiach comes- so keep a low profile and Hashem will love you…June 1, 2009 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #647508YW Moderator-39Member
To my fellow Brit, Kindly note that on the other side of the pond men will routinely walk to shul in their tallesim worn over their suit. It is European to hide the tallis whilst walking in public.June 2, 2009 1:40 am at 1:40 am #647509
But why should America be any different? I thought people were Machmir here because it’s like a display of “we own the place”…is America excluded from Galus???June 2, 2009 9:24 am at 9:24 am #647510proud tattyMember
Sadly few American Jews believe they are in Galus. If they believed it they wouldn’t act with their sense of entitlement.June 2, 2009 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #647511
proud tatty- that really is sad because one of the first questions (maybe even the first) which they ask you after dying is “did you wait for the Yeshua?” and if we feel comfortable and at home in Galus how can we be waiting and beseeching for Moshiach???June 2, 2009 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #647513
Joseph- hope your part of the 3 digit number who can…June 2, 2009 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #647514areivimzehlazehParticipant
There are at least 3 New Yorkers in the CR alone that await the geula every day- where does that leave you…June 2, 2009 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #647515
joseph: hey ya shocked me! nice to show your face!June 3, 2009 1:47 am at 1:47 am #647516
joseph- what do you have against new yorkers? (no i am not one but i have new york genes)June 3, 2009 2:06 am at 2:06 am #647517
“joseph- what do you have against new yorkers?”
Who says he has anything against them? He was just stating facts…June 3, 2009 2:09 am at 2:09 am #647518
who says it’s a fact?June 3, 2009 2:15 am at 2:15 am #647519June 3, 2009 2:17 am at 2:17 am #647520
Even if it isn’t…he thinks it is…not because he has anything against you people that’s just what he believes…and I am many thousands of miles away so I can’t argue or confirm but you definitely can…(and are!)June 3, 2009 2:50 am at 2:50 am #647521
I am NOT a new yorker and I’m very proud of it.June 3, 2009 2:55 am at 2:55 am #647522
I am a New Yorker & love being a NYer! sorry to those who think not that great things of us! will try try be nicer to ya all! 😉June 3, 2009 3:23 am at 3:23 am #647523
Jax- that’s so sweet but it’s not individuals it’s the whole mentality. Sorry but I don’t think it could be changed.June 3, 2009 3:32 am at 3:32 am #647524
Woa everyone- never realised there was major friction down there…whats wrong with being from New York postsemgirl???
Jax: dya have that t-shirt thingy with “I love NY” with a red heart???June 3, 2009 3:35 am at 3:35 am #647525
noitallmr: nope, maybe i should send one out to ya tho! 😉June 3, 2009 3:42 am at 3:42 am #647526
I already have my “I love U.K” t-shirt…perhaps when/if I move!!!June 3, 2009 4:11 am at 4:11 am #647528
noitallmr- I guess your not no it all mr. It’s not anyone’s fault it’s just that nyers think differently then us outa towners. It effects their behaivor. do you know what I mean?June 4, 2009 12:17 am at 12:17 am #647530mepalMember
Yes, postsemgirl, we think and we ARE the greatest! Everyone else, sorry to say, is second class. 😉June 4, 2009 2:13 am at 2:13 am #647531
mepal- wow ego alert! Do you really believe that New York is the center of the world and that all out of towners live on farms and milk cows for Cholov Yisroel milk? People can be so ignorant. When I was in camp someone in my bunk from Flatbush told me that I have to give my passport into the office. So I said I live in
so she said yea but don’t you have to leave the country for that since it’s not in New York? That is pathetic!June 4, 2009 3:31 am at 3:31 am #647532
postsemgirl: it sounds kinda stereotypical. don’t you know people from ny not like that? i think it may depend somewhat on what community they’re part of (like what school or “type” they are)June 4, 2009 5:18 am at 5:18 am #647533
postsemgirl: ok, that story is just bizarre! how old was this kid?!June 4, 2009 5:30 am at 5:30 am #647534
postsemgirl: yeah, i’ve seen that happen before (not just heard stories thirdhand) but i think it’s a bit extreme. most people are a little more aware of the world around them.
jax: you’d be surprised. i’ve heard that type of thing said by 8th or 9th graders before.June 4, 2009 5:37 am at 5:37 am #647535
an open book: that’s just wild!
p.s. you breaking curfew?!June 4, 2009 6:12 am at 6:12 am #647536GoldieLoxxMember
im not from ny but ny is way coolJune 4, 2009 6:27 am at 6:27 am #647537mamashtakahMember
Didn’t you all ever see the poster titled something like “NY’ers View of the World”? It shows NY as huge, and the rest of the world being pretty tiny.June 4, 2009 11:48 am at 11:48 am #647539
aob- there are always individuals
jax- I think we were in 10th grade
I’m not saying NYers are bad because all my cousins are NYers and I love them and they are not bad. It’s just that there is a different mentality. That’s it. I didn’t mean to offend anyone. Each place has their maalos and chisronos so the place I live also has them. I guess it takes an out of towner to understand what I am saying.June 4, 2009 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #647540
postsemgirl: yeah, in general i guess.June 4, 2009 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #647542
Hello any out of towners here?June 4, 2009 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #647543anon for thisParticipant
postsemgirl, I grew up out of town (in the midwest), and I did encounter some of that in seminary in e”Y. I think people meant well but just didn’t know better, so they made ignorant comments. In seminary, when someone was traveling to the US, we’d give the person letters to mail to our parents. Once I wanted to send a letter but had no stamp, so I asked another student if I could borrow one. She said, “I wish I could, but I have no stamps for your city.”
Keep in mind, though, that many Americans know little about their own country.June 4, 2009 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #647544mepalMember
anon, come on. Thats pathetic! People could be sooo close minded.
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