Dehumanizing others

@rescue

I support:
– beliefs as the yardstick of how we treat others
– shaming and degrading and humiliating others based off what they believe
– that no one is entitled to respect for their own opinion and their own beliefs, rather respect comes from aligning with ultimate truth.
– dehumanization of those who reject or are otherwise not aligned with truth.

All the above are supported by me specifically under the guidelines as taught in the Jewish Torah.

False beliefs remove a person’s moral worth, mental states, and inherent dignity, justifying violence or abuse (when allowed by Torah law). In contrast, only those who align with Torah deserve respect.

Moral Consideration: Dehumanization strips heretics of the moral consideration typically granted to Jews, making their suffering seem irrelevant, whereas respecting – chas v’shulem – heretics is an explicit endorsement of those false beliefs.

“Us vs. Them” Thinking: Dehumanization relies on “othering” and tribalism to view a group as fundamentally inferior or animal-like, something necessary to protect oneself from the crooked influence of their rebellion against G-d.

@SQUARE_ROOT

Chas viShalom!
“Mizrachi” means “Religious Zionist”, NOT general Sephardic Jewry.

The greatest Torah sages of the past century have clearly ruled that “Religious Zionism” is idolatry and heresy, including Rav Elchonon Wasserman, the Brisker Rav and more. You’re welcome to disagree with them, but that is out of place on a site with the name “Yeshiva”.

That must be the source of your quote, which otherwise doesn’t sound familiar.

While on the topic, though, you still haven’t apologized for cursing Jews.

@SQUARE_ROOT

When @hakatan says Mizrachi he isn’t referring to Sefardim.

To somejewiknow

Thank you for your outstanding post. As you correctly stated, morality is defined by the Torah. Let’s prove this with a simple example. When Moshiach comes, if someone is found in the public carrying his keys on Shabbos, he’s given a warning by two Kosher witnesses and if he ignores that warning he’s stoned to death. Is that moral? Of course it is, because the Torah says so. But this atheist called rescue would reject what I just said because he has his own value system which he thinks trumps Hashem’s word. A few weeks ago, I asked him, on three occasions, to name the Rabbi(s) he follows and he refused. Do you know why? He’s a Mechallel of the entire Torah. When that crazy Lubavich woman said that Schneersohn is the physical son of god, this ausvorf defended her. I don’t know why the moderators allow this sheigitz to keep writing.

This whole thread is stupidity. The “god” of “rescue” is NOT the same God of Israel who gave the Torah Law. MOST of the Laws of the Torah are about treating others with cruelty if they dont toe the exact line as delineated by the Torah.
Think of capital punishment and public flogging, which are EXPLICITLY commanded MANY MANY times. Killing and Enslaving others who are different are EXPLICITLY commanded by the Torah. And what does “cut off from the nation” mean? כרת. It’s definitely not good.
If I eat food reserved for the elite Kohanim, I’m deserving of death.

I understand that “rescue” doesn’t approve of the Law of the God of Israel, and so he wants to invent his own god based on his own moral conscience. That’s perfectly fine with me personally, but just label your god as “the god of rescue”, not the God of Israel who gave the Torah Law of Moshe.

Each person can invent their own god, based on what they would want god to be like.

And yes, one of the commandments is to “Love your friend like yourself”, but that’s NOT the only command; although it’s the only one that “rescue” accepts. And NO, the fact that Hillel or R Akiva and other Rabbis have glorified this one command does NOT make it supersede the rest of the Law of the Torah.
Sorry “rescue”. But we don’t get to invent our own gods.
It wud be AWESOME if we cud tho…

To Happy New Year

Thanks for calling out that worthless atheist. Shlomo Hamelech wrote that there’s no hope for a fool who is wise in his own eyes. When this “Peh” Tzaddik sees that others besides me are on to him he’ll disappear, but not before he cries that we’re dehumanizing him. That’s nonsense. Since he has rejected the Torah, he no longer has the status of a human being and so we’re actually decockroachizing him. He should hang out with the Chabad Kofer Manis Friedman, and they can compare notes as to how G-d doesn’t punish sinners.

Dear Rescue,

You’re more than welcome to express humanist ideology and promotion of your perception of what is good and proper.

But you have NO right to pretend that this is somehow the truth behind the Torah, and something that the God of Israel wants.

Make up your own god and humanist ideology. Great. That’s fine.

But its NOT what the “bible” teaches. Please don’t lie.
I already proved above (and you fully agreed) that the Torah does NOT agree with you.

This response is in reply to rescue’s last comment on March 29, 2026 am at 10:59am (reply #2531179),

Dear rescue, what it took for you to finally reveal your true self… to say that “self determination” is the basis of Torah Law is a complete untruth. You and so all your comments say above that last comment, and on other sites, like the coffee room, “hebrew” and other sites you have moderated or responded to… you are not Jewish in any way shape or form. It is quite obvious that you have a very strong need to convert Torah Jews into your way of “self determined” thinking. Torah does not ask us to determine our own way. Torah asks us nothing at all. It is a set of very complex commandments by the A’lmty. He asks us to obey H-s commandments not to object. Not to think about it selfishly as you so radically point out in your comments, we are to be “self determined” to respond as we, as you say, “not (have) an external need for control”. H”M never asks of H-s Torah Children to “control” anything. He ask us to obey H-s commandments not to think of how or when to do so or why we should now consider whether or not we should obey H-m. You seen to respond quite clearly to modern psychological treatment of our response to H”M’s Torah commandments, “The fulfillment of three basic psychological needs-autonomy, competence, and relatedness-facilitates this deep Internationalization, allowing individuals to integrate moral principles into their own identity.” Rescue, where are these principles in Torah Law??? None of them applies to Torah Law. Torah Law does not ask us to be autonomous, competent,, and related to Torah Law. Those ides are a modernistic way of saying that we, you are to know you are not right to state those things in a Torah Coffee Room/House, we determine how we want to believe, obey, or not obey, or further to state that we are competent in our own right. To state quite frankly, we are not to believe in our own moral compass in Torah Law, we are not to disagree with Torah Law, were are not to relate to Torah Law how we “feel”. We are simply, and I state this for the record, we are to obey at all times and not just when it is convenient, to obey at all times the Torah Laws that H”M has stated. It is not a question of why? It is no question at all as a matter of fact. We are required to Obey all the Torah Laws as Yidden/Jews. Not to disobey an incur H”M’s raging at us for disobedience to H-s Eternal Laws.

Now to respond to qwerty613; Dear qwerty613, All Men of Torah are Son’s of G-D. Each and every one of them was created by G-D and knit as you know in their Mother’s wombs in silence. Every Torah Male is a Son of G-D and bears H-s covenant in their Penis’s from their Bris Milahs. When Torah Men wear Tefillin they profess their marital bond to H”M and profess their undying love for H-m of All. They are bound to H-m by Bapei Metzizah/Kappel/Torah Koton Tallis/Tallis Gadol/and by their Tefillin Tefillah Brachas. Each is a True Torah Son of G-D. All who are commanded in this way by Torah Law declaring their absolute obedience to H-m of All and their undying service and Ahavah/Love to the One of All; all of them are Sons of the Spiritual Nature of G-D and there is no other way or no other that they are beholden to. To decry, qwerty613, that all Torah Men are not known as Sons of G-D is to show your indiscreet ignorance of Torah Law. You are to know this if you are indeed a Torah Male who is beholden to the G-D of All. Do you know this, qwerty6i13????? Or are to state that that crazy woman who called Menachem Mendel Schneerson, Rabbi of chabad son of G-D? was wrong. He, and every other Jewish/Yiddishe Torah Male is a Son of G-D by G-D’s Bris Milah/Bapei Metzizah Design. It is inherent in their very skin of their removed foreskin of their infant penis. And when the shards of unremoved skin are finally scraped away and a nail movement of the skin at the below level of the penis is split it reveals the “Crown of Torah” that the infant’s penis has now become. Do you have such a penis covenant qwerty613????? Did you have a Bapei Meztizah done by the Mohel’s mouth sucking the remaining blood from the penis after the Bapei Metzizah is performed???? It serves the infant’s future relationship with H”M in H-s covenant with the Al-mty along with his other peers in the Torah “Court” of Law. Let me know if this surprises you querty613? All in the covenant of H”M have this Torah impression on their “Crown-revealed” penises. Do you have that qwerty613?????? All the Torah Males/Yiddishe Neshami’s are to be known as Sons of G-D. End of point, qwerty613. Not one of them resides on earth alone. All are connected links in an undying chain to the Al-mty of All. All are Sons of G-D on earth and hopefully in Gan Eden after earth, and hopefully in Shamayim Olam Haba and even in higher thresholds of height approaching the Holy/Kadosh Shechinah. Menachem Mendel Schneerson, rebbi of chabad hade a Torah “Crowned” penis and by all rights thereunto is a Sons of G-D because of this Bris Milah done by a competent Mohel. qwerty613, please rethink you comments before you accuse a Torah female of wrong thinking. Is is possible you made a mis-step? Are you willing to admit it now? Think about it qwerty613 before you point fingers in the future and accuse others of the very aveirah/sin that you accuse that Torah female of. signed, Rebbe Shlita Dovid Daniel Teitelbaum.

To RD Teitelbaum

After properly calling out rescue, you turned to attack me. Please cite something I said that’s outside the environs of Torah Judaism

To the group

Rescue sounds like a very happy, well-adjusted person thanks to his religion lol. In a few days Jews all over the world will sit down to their Pesach sedarim but not recue. No, the word Seder means order which is, in itself, dogmatic. Why should we eat the Morror before the Matzoh? That’s an infringement on my personal freedom. And why can’t I eat anything after the afikoman? Everything about the seder suppresses individualism and should be eliminated according to rescue. A few weeks ago, he started a thread called shidduchim in which he railed against the system which has kept him single. Is it the system or did he share with the shadchanim his brand of “Judaism?”

@rescue
“Hakatan. _reality_ determines morality as it is the fabric of creation. Whether God looked into the Torah and created the world doesn’t contradict that morality is still the fabric of reality. The Torah and reality are a complement of the other not a contradiction”

No. Not in Judaism, anyways.
G-d created the world based on what the Torah requires. In other words, the relevant portions of the Torah are the “blueprint” of creation.
But that obviously doesn’t mean that the world (or “reality”, as you put it) therefore contains everything in the Torah. Therefore, it also does not mean that Torah and reality are a complement of each other. Reality is a reflection of the relevant portions of the Torah.

Morality, like all else, is derived from the Torah, not from the world.

The verse מְחַלְלֶיהָ מוֹת יוּמָת (“Those who profane Shabbos shall surely be put to death”) is found in the Book of Exodus (Shemos), Chapter 31, Verse 14.

Is that good enough for you??
Let’s see how you twist this…

To the group

Rather than try to convince rescue that he’s wrong let’s follow his “logic.” He posits that G-d created people a certain way and so He must then accept them when they act in that accord. So, with that one sweeping statement rescue has answered the question that has plagued philosophers from time immemorial, to with, “Are humans the products of nature or nurture?” Rescue has the answer, “G-d created each of us a certain way, and it’s pointless to try and change. Therefore, we should ignore the dictates of the Torah because a person must follow his own instincts.” Let’s understand the sequalae of such a position. Rescue believes that someone born with an instinct to kill, can’t be faulted if he does so because this is how G-d made him. In fact, the Gemara addresses this subject. It acknowledges that people are born with certain inclinations and provides a solution. If someone is born under a “sign” that portends a life of killing he should become a Shochet. The point is that people can train themselves to channel their “nature” into something positive and productive. Of course, this requires effort and a sincere desire to follow Hashem’s wishes, two things which rescue considers anathematic. I’ll just add that rescue is a hypocrite. In a different thread he stated that the reason for anti-Semitism is that Jews cheat the government and so he asserted that if Orthodox Jews would stop cheating the system gentiles would no longer hate us. The problem with that position is that it assumes that Jew hatred is a learned behavior and so his entire worldview is undermined. This is what happens to a person who rejects the Torah and tries to convince himself that his distorted views will find favor in Hashems eyes.

@Happy_New_Year

@HaKatan
@RD_Teitelbaum

All others

דע מה שתשוב לאפיקורס, הני מילי באפיקורס עכו״ם. אפיקורס ישראל שאני דפוקר טפי.

Can we talk about the word “obey” since i see it as a personal love language for some in their relationship to Torah?
The specific English word and its legalistic connotations were shaped by the translation process from Greek to Latin and finally to English.
The Greek Septuagint (LXX): When the Torah was forcefully translated into Greek, they often used the word hupakouo (ὑπακούω) for shama. This Greek word literally means “to hear under” (submitting oneself to what is heard).
The Latin Vulgate: Later Christian translations into Latin used the word obedire, which is a compound of ob- (towards) and audire (to hear). This Latin root directly gave us the English word “obey”.
Translation Shift: While the Hebrew shama is an organic, holistic term for “hearing-and-doing,” the Latin and later English “obey” can sometimes feel more like a legalistic or forensic term—complying with a law rather than responding to a relationship.

So, while the Greek and Christian translations accurately captured the “listening” root of the Hebrew, the English word “obey” inherited a more formal, hierarchical tone from its Latin and Medieval roots that isn’t always present in the original Hebrew.

Torah isn’t viewed as a set of “orders” for a mindless soldier, but as Toras Chayim meant for a thinking human being.
The move from “obeying” (blind compliance) to “listening” (shama) and “guarding” (shamar) actually makes room for human intellect, logic and reasoning. Here is why:
1. “Na’aseh V’Nishma” (We will do and we will hear)
When we received the Torah, we said, “Na’aseh v’nishma” (Exodus 24:7). While this is often cited as “blind faith,” the word nishma (we will hear/understand) implies that the understanding comes through the doing. You aren’t meant to stop thinking; you are meant to analyze the experience as you live it.
2. The Torah “Speaks in the Language of Men”
A famous Talmudic principle states, Dibra Torah k’lashon bnei adam—”The Torah speaks in human language.” This acknowledges that the Torah is filtered through human perception. Therefore, using the best tools of human reason—including philosophy, science, or “humanist” ethics—is often seen as just another perspective or lens to apply the Torah to the real world.
3. Argument as Worship
Avraham Avine and Moshe Rabbeinu frequently argued with Hashem based on human concepts of justice (“Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justice?”). This proves that “blind obedience” was never the goal; God expects humans to use their moral compass.
4. Humanism as a Tool
Using humanist ideas (like the inherent dignity of the person or rational ethics) to understand the Torah is essentially what the Rambam (Maimonides) did when he used Aristotelian logic to write the Guide for the Perplexed. He believed that “Truth is truth, regardless of its source.” If a humanist tool helps you better “guard” (shamar) the dignity of a fellow human, it serves the Torah’s purpose.
In this view, the “commandments” are more like blueprints for a flourishing life than a test of how well you can follow instructions without asking “why.”