August 15, 2016 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #1169985
Mashiach Agent – everything can be hard.August 15, 2016 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #1169986Person1Member
Mashiach Agent I don’t quite agree with you.
Many people who are depressed aren’t this way because they objectively think their life are bad.
Some people live in very good conditions (E.G. they have a caring family. and a stable job) and they are still depressed. So even by secular standards they shoud be happy with their life. And they are not!
There’s someone I know who’s depressed. And I wish this person knew how much their spouse needs them and loves them, And how much their children love them and what an impact they can have on their life.
So I think that many times you don’t need Chovos Halevavos to rule out depression being logical. Problem is, it’s sickness and it doesn’t succumb to logic.August 15, 2016 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #1169987
Person1 – thats what i was thinking. no matter what i do i feel like i will still feel depressed.August 15, 2016 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1169988Mashiach AgentMember
NO all my depressed patients come to see me cause they are ALREADY depressed & need help.
BUT if you are not depressed or sad yet then this is how you can prevent it from happening to you C”VAugust 15, 2016 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #1169989
The placebo effect is underrated. It works on real illnesses.August 15, 2016 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1169990
Depression is an emotion, and Chovos Halevavos can speak to a person’s emotions. I also think that logic can affect one’s emotions. I’m not speaking of clinical depression, but it may be true for clinical depression as well. We don’t know so much about what things cause what things. People earlier posted that depression is a chemical imbalance. Aside from the fact that that is not true in all cases, we don’t know what causes the chemical imbalance. It is possible that one’s emotions and/or thoughts can affect their chemical imbalances. Science doesn’t know enough yet about these things. Someone had compared it to Cancer. There are theories that Cancer can be caused/cured by emotions. Chemical balances can certainly be affected by one’s emotions as well as by ones habits (exercise, eating, sleeping, etc.)
Of course, someone who is suffering from depression has to make sure that they look into more than avenue of cure. And if they need therapy and/or medication, they should make sure to get it. But it doesn’t hurt to try other things either first or simultaneously. And there are all types and levels of depression. Sometimes, a person does just need to change the way he thinks. That’s what some therapies are all about.August 15, 2016 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #1169991Person1Member
Sparkly still there are ways to fight depression, like therapy, medications and exercise.
Also it probably help if you have good real friends whom you trust. A proffesional might have other tips.
Edit: LU I agree. Didn’t see your comment.August 15, 2016 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1169992
Person1 – therapy is often based on changing the way you think about things.August 15, 2016 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #1169993
is it normal to get depressed from reading a book?August 15, 2016 7:52 pm at 7:52 pm #1169994
Oh thanks sparkly for bringing back up my thread cause my depression went away but then it came back (probably has to do with the fact that I have no job and i roam 13 ave like a zombie) to be honest at this point I know what triggers my depression and i know how to get out of it. When i feel like I’m doing nothing with my life and day I feel horrible ,so if I don’t have a job or I juat lounge around I feel like likable lazy bum and then I have TOO MUCH TIME and i started feeling guilty about random things I did in my life and it’s a vicious cycle.????? ??? ???? ????? so basically I figured out that if I find other stuff to make me feel accomplished I will feel better like even stupid things like making a fancy supper for my parents or making a good recording (I like to sing) will help but the biggest help for yourself is helping others so I volunteer sometimes to visit people and help with kids and that’s the best
Sparkly don’t underestimate the power of these sfarim and fabulous books ..the ultimate satisfaction I get (and I’m not a rebbetzin) is davening and when I say that I mean in English. Just talking to him.
Abba s and Ice cream of course helps but that’s temporary
Sparkly therr are so many things to read I have a whole shelf of stuff if u wanna come over lol or juat go to eichlers..idk where u live tho
And of course I’m still looking for a job once I get that hopefully it will help me feel better all the wayAugust 15, 2016 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #1169995
Sadgirlygirl – you have the same issue with depression like me. and i didnt mean to chasvichaillia degrade the rabbis books and i love davening and all that. you probably also have anxiety or add?August 15, 2016 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #1169996MenoParticipant
Sadgirlygirl, ice cream is only temporary if you stop eating it 🙂
On a serious note though, that’s very impressive that you found a way to get over your depression, you should be very proud of yourself. A lot of people can’t do that.August 15, 2016 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #1169997
“you have the same issue with depression like me.”
is it just me or do you seem to have everything that seems to come up in each discussion?August 15, 2016 8:30 pm at 8:30 pm #1169998
I second Meno’s post. (both parts!) The davening part is especially impressive -many find it hard to daven when they are depressed!August 15, 2016 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #1169999
Syag Lchochma – its just you because i dont.August 15, 2016 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #1170000
well I don’t know if you can answer that objectively. Maybe you can read thru your posts and take some notes.August 15, 2016 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1170001Abba_SParticipant
Try listening to music and keep busy. It’s when you have time to think about all your problems this is when you get depressed.
As far as finding a job look in the YWN classified. The coffee room is not the place to find a job.August 15, 2016 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #1170002
Abba_S – i do try keeping busy and it usually does it work. but sometimes ill start crying anyways and the way how i start crying and reason why is the way how a depressed person does.August 15, 2016 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #1170003
Depression is very real, but even the most genius scientists don’t fully understand the causes or treatment.August 15, 2016 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1170004mendy123Member
You can help yourself immensely.
You can bring yourself to feel much better, with a new attitude.
If you can read an easy Hebrew, I would very much suggest to read a weekly pamphlet (that can be downloaded) based on the speeches of R’ Mielech Biderman shlita. It is called “Be’er Haparsha”.
I have yet to meet someone that has tried this for a few weeks and has said that it didn’t make a difference in their lives.August 16, 2016 1:29 am at 1:29 am #1170005
Syag L’chochma, it seems to me that might be a bit insulting to Sparkly…and coming from s.o who was insulted when I expressed my opinion on dying my hair..August 16, 2016 1:39 am at 1:39 am #1170006
Sparkly – have you given therapy a try? I’m not saying it’s always the answer, but it might be worth trying. You have to choose a therapist wisely though. A friend of mine has tried many therapists, and she claims it’s really hard to find a good one, but she says when you do find one, she thinks it’s a worthwhile thing for everyone in the world to do.August 16, 2016 1:43 am at 1:43 am #1170007
LU-If you read my post you would know that I wasn’t insulted about that comment but was pointing out how insulting it could be to others.
I’m not quite sure why your posts today are so different from what they had been all week but they used to be filled with support and inspiration and today it has been a lot of finger pointing and putting in our place. I genuinely hope there is nothing going on in your life causing you pain to have brought on this change. If there is, I wish you a quick resolution.August 16, 2016 1:55 am at 1:55 am #1170008
Syag lchochma – I actually feel that way about your posts today. I think that the post here was insulting to Sparkly, and I have the impression that she was hurt by it. You can ask her if you want.
I already explained that there was nothing offensive about my other post. I guess I had been expecting an apology from you once you read my explanation, so I was hurt when you didn’t apologize and that’s why I mentioned it here, although perhaps it was out of place to bring it up here. In any case, I understand now that the reason you didn’t apologize was because you didn’t understand my comments and still think that my comments were insulting (and t/f it’s not possible for you to realize that your comments were quite insulting to me!) When I have a chance, I will try to explain myself again, but m/w I would appreciate if you would reread what I wrote in the other thread and maybe you will understand. Thank you! I do forgive you now for not apologizing to me for what you wrote in that thread because I see that you really just did not understand what I wrote!August 16, 2016 2:00 am at 2:00 am #1170009
Syag L’chachma – I just want to point out that I do think that it’s nice that you are so sensitive that you were concerned about how others in the same situation as me might feel upon reading my post (even though I don’t understand your concern) which is why I was surprised at your lack of sensitivity in this thread towards Sparkly.August 16, 2016 2:04 am at 2:04 am #1170010
lilmod ulelamaid – i havent. but i dont plan on it either. dont you think its insulting to tell someone to go to a therapist?
Syag Lchochma – its insulting to claim that someone has something when they dont.August 16, 2016 2:17 am at 2:17 am #1170011
Syag l’chachma: let me present it to you this way: What if I had said that I prefer wearing colored clothing to wearing black clothing and that I think it’s a bad idea for someone to only wear black clothes every day? Would you have found that offensive?
And I’m just wondering if you think about it, if you can see why, as an older single with grey hair, I might have been slightly bothered by all of your comments about older singles with grey hair? It wasn’t the biggest deal (just slightly upsetting), but it is hard for me to understand why you took offense at my comment that I prefer to dye my hair, yet don’t understand why I may have been a bit hurt by your comments. It’s not the biggest deal, but I would appreciate it if you would try to see where I was coming from. Thank you!August 16, 2016 2:23 am at 2:23 am #1170012
saddygirlygirl…first lets change your name it might change your luck..your new name is HAPPYGIRLYGIRL..The way you write… if i get you correctly… you are a normal healthy young girl…feeling down …cause no job ..just walking the streets and feel like a zombie..can you name any girl that would feel better. Yes every one needs to feel accomplised in life to give them some satisfaction..isnt that just normal…But you also write you go for therapy…I am sure you are not going for the fun or to keep you bussy…so i might be wrong since I dont know why your are going…but just one suggestion while your in therapy aprox. every two three months look back and ask yourself if you see changes ..growth..if you do you are probably going to the right one but if not.. you dont see any changes..dont be stuck their go ahead give yourself the privilage to try someone else..hope this was beneficial…loads of hatzluchaAugust 16, 2016 3:16 am at 3:16 am #1170013
Thanks for all the chizuk people I really feel like you’re all my older brothers and sisters (which technically is true) but wow sparkly do you know me???I was never tested for adhd or add or anxiety but I do have symptoms of each which I guess most people do (by me it’s the hyperness-I actually love this part of me,impulsiveness-could juat mean I’m a teen,and anxiety)but I don’t think I would label myself any of these.and to the last poster I haveseen many changes since going to therapy and at this point I’m going because I like her and it’s a good relationship .lol. And i don’t suffer clinical depression (or anything clinical)just as one poster said i guess it’s natural that I should feel this way. And how can i change MY username? A few years ago I had a different one…but I wanna change it to happygirlygirl. And people I have an interview tomorrow please daven for me.. I’m serious! I love you all!!!!! Sincerely happygirlygirlAugust 16, 2016 3:40 am at 3:40 am #1170014Mashiach AgentMember
may Hashem give you hatzlacha in your interviewAugust 16, 2016 3:44 am at 3:44 am #1170015
Thanks MA and omg They changed my name I’m so excited Time to jump on my bed yay Now I’m like really happy!!! and i have a question mod 29 or whoever when I sign in I use my new name?August 16, 2016 3:49 am at 3:49 am #1170016
happygirlygirl – did sadgirlygirl become happygirlygirl? howd you do that? because i have the same kind of depression like how you were saying and also have symptoms of anxiety and add. you should ask your college for extra time on tests and stuff because theyd give it to you. because if you have the same issue like me in the beginning of the test you cant think and blank out and towards the end you can start giving in all the correct answers.
absan – thanks for the advice. even if this may not be my thread that i started but as happygirlygirl has put it i have the same issue that she has.
lilmod ulelamaid – what age is considered an older single? i would say 30.August 16, 2016 8:43 am at 8:43 am #1170017Thinking out loudParticipant
I’m weighing in on this one. Unfortunately, there is one word currently used for two different conditions.
When a normally functioning person has a bad day, or doesn’t feel accomplished, or has a negative interaction with a loved one, it can lead to lowered feelings. I think this is the type of depression that is addressed in most of the divrei chazal, seforim, and good advice offered.
For some reason we use the exact same term for a seriously altered state of reality, in which the person is stuck in a cycle of negative thoughts, negative judgements, self-condemnation, lack of any motivation at all, lessened ability to enjoy normal things, like ice cream, or a cute baby, or even complete inability to experience pleasure or joy. It is termed depression. Yes, it is differentiated in professional terminology by the word clinical. But most people still refer to this state as depression without adding the word clinical. As in, he suffers from depression. Or, she had mania, and is now in a depression. Or, he shows no interest in life, or family simchas. I think he’s depressed.
Note, the lack of that word clinical.
That is how most people speak.
The reason I know is because I have experienced the real deal. Full blown, life threatening, unremitting clinical depression. It did not respond to medicine. It did not respond to exercise. Music made it worse. I tried to read Rabbi Pliskin’s book, and ended up throwing it across the room. Then I condemned myself for not trying. I avoided people to the best of my ability. My mind was stuck in a never ending circular thought loop, that went from thoughts of my sins, to thoughts of my punishments, to thoughts of wanting to die, to thoughts of that being a sin… again, and again, and again, all day and all night. I don’t know a better description of hell. Anxiety medication provided some relief so I could sleep.
I was seeing a therapist. twice a week. then a psychologist. They couldn’t get me to shake it. They tried TMS (look it up). They tried biofeedback. But my mind remained stuck where it was. My expression was sort of flat, there was almost no inflection in my voice. Medically, or Clinically, if you will, that is referred to as having little or no Affect. I was dissociated. (look it up). For whatever reason ECT was not indicated.
Throughout this period, which lasted for many months, my condition was almost always referred to as a depression. By doctors, relatives, therapists, and books. Occasionally the word clinical was added.
The result of this semantic issue, was that I applied everything I heard or read about depression to myself. Most of those uses of the word probably referred to what I termed above as lowered feelings. In the state I was in, I did not know that I was sick. I was able to use all of the ideas, and suggestions, and mussar as daggers with which to attack myself for not improving my middos to alleviate the depression.
Boruch HaShem I am now fine. It’s not relevant to this post whether the condition was chemical or psychological. It didn’t matter. I was stuck. The manifestation of the illness was very real. Only Hashem knows if I had bechira, and in what areas. I dragged myself out of bed to take showers. I’m sure I get credit for that. I went like a zombie to the grocery, to buy basic food. I get credit for that.
But now, Boruch Hashem my life is rather normal. Sometimes, like everyone else, I find myself feeling a bit low. Exercise helps it pass. Going outside helps it pass. Putting on music helps it pass. Calling a friend, considering positive possibilities, reading something funny, getting involved in a minor home repair or some deep house cleaning distracts me, and it passes. Developing an attitude of gam zu l’tova, or hakaras hatov provides a mental climate that will make such feelings less frequent, and more likely to pass when they occur.
Many people would use the word depressed instead of my choice of the term low.
As a person who has suffered from depression, I find it impossible to use that word to describe a feeling that I can change by choosing certain thoughts or activities.
I am certainly not alone. Many others have experienced the type of Major Depression that I did. Those people, as well as their loved ones who observed the unremitting suffering close-up, probably do not use the term depression lightly.
And the fact that others do, is cause for much argument, hurt, and even confusion on the part of those who have had the medical version.
I am sure, from my reactions, and from letters to the editor, and from the posts above, that both a passing experience of lowered feelings, and a serious medical state with dissociative features, are both referred to as depression. Usually without descriptive adjectives such as clinical or Major.
We can not really fault people for whom their only experience with depression is a temporary, or even pervasive bad mood. However, when a person argues about how to address a case of self described depression, as presented by the OP, it is prudent to take people’s possible experiences into account, before jumping on them for over-reacting.
Words mean completely different things to different people.
One last note: Please do not bother to post advice for treating (Clinical) Depression in response to this post. You will likely hurt more people than you help.August 16, 2016 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #1170018
Sparkly – actually, I don’t think it’s necessarily insulting to suggest that s.o. go to a therapist. It depends how it’s done. If you say that you think that everyone in the world should go to a therapist, there’s nothing insulting about that.
Not everyone thinks there’s something insulting about seeing a therapist. Some people think that it’s a very positive thing to do, and something that everyone should do. Some people think it’s a sign of being a healthy person. More and more people today feel this way.
btw, just for the record, I put a ticket in OORAH’s auction for a therapist even before I knew they weren’t announcing that winner.August 16, 2016 12:35 pm at 12:35 pm #1170019
Thinking out loud: Thank you very much for your post. You are right that it is very important that people be careful to differentiate between the two types of depression, and that it causes much confusion when they don’t. I think that most people don’t know the difference between the two types of depression. Also, I think it is confusing because there are so many levels and types of depression. Thank you for clarifying. I think that was very important.
Tachlis, it seems that the OP was referring to the nonclinical form of depression – the type that responds to everyday things like getting enough sleep, listening to music, etc.
I’m just curious, TOL, from your knowledge of the topic, do you think that there is a danger of non-clinical depression becoming clinical or are they two different things? I’m also wondering if people who commit suicide and/or OD usually suffer from clinical depression or if they could be suffering from non-clinical depression? Also, is there a clear-cut difference b/w the two or is it a continuum?August 16, 2016 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #1170020
Depression that doesn’t go away is like cancer that doesn’t respond to treatment. All other cancers are still cancer.August 17, 2016 1:21 am at 1:21 am #1170022
Btw the interview went awesome thanks for the tefillosAugust 17, 2016 2:45 am at 2:45 am #1170024YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
A few years ago I had a different one…
If I promise not to approve it, are you willing to tell me your old screen name? I’m wondering if I’m right in my assumption.August 17, 2016 2:50 am at 2:50 am #1170025
First tell me what does approve it mean? And tell me what letter it starts with and ends with and I’ll tell uAugust 17, 2016 2:59 am at 2:59 am #1170026
YW Moderator-29 – what is a screen name?August 17, 2016 3:11 am at 3:11 am #1170027YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
approved means I let everyone read it. If I press delete, nobody will ever see it.
Im guessing maybe t or g for the starting letter.August 17, 2016 3:28 am at 3:28 am #1170028
l.u.Yes there is still a stigma about going to therapist, I see how hesitent some of my cleints are before they book a app. But more and more is being spoken about it , you can see a difference from 3 years ago and now.August 17, 2016 3:29 am at 3:29 am #1170029
l.u.Yes there is still a stigma about going to therapist, I see how hesitent some of my cleints are before they book a app. But more and more is being spoken about it , you can see a difference from 3 years ago and now.August 17, 2016 3:31 am at 3:31 am #1170030
absan – may be so but for the people im always around they said that ONLY people with problems go to a therapist.August 17, 2016 3:39 am at 3:39 am #1170031
sparky.. lets face it .WHO doesnt have problems??? including myself. There is a saying how do you know the difference between the cleint and therapist..the cleint gets better the therapist stays the same..August 17, 2016 3:56 am at 3:56 am #1170032
absan – that is true. i never said the psychologist themselves didnt have an issue in fact if you knew me i said the opposite. i say theirs a reason why someone becomes a psychologist – to help themselves.
-Sparkly with glitters and glueAugust 17, 2016 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #1170034
Sparky,,on this thought your wrong.No therapist in their right mind will take this job to help themselves (maybe for an income) in fact a good therapist has to know how to work with their cleints and they should noy become burnt out.Thats called the therapist syndrome (burnt out).August 17, 2016 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1170035
I don’t the therapists go to help themselves but that’s what ultimately ends up happeningAugust 18, 2016 10:10 am at 10:10 am #1170036Thinking out loudParticipant
You ask good questions. I don’t know if there’s a clear-cut answer. Actually, I know that there isn’t. Doctors ask a lot of questions to a depressed person, in order to try to figure out what’s happening.
They don’t just “know” automatically, and sometimes they miss it big time.
People are often not willing or even able to say what’s really going on inside. They may just say a couple of things that are going wrong, that don’t seem so deep, without expressing the intense distress that those things are causing.
I am certain it is not an exact science.
Sometimes medications make a difference. Often they do not. There’s a lot of experimentation, and it’s always trial and error. Anxiety medications are more predictable, I think.
I don’t know if it’s a continuum.
Personally, I don’t think depressive thoughts lead to clinical depression automatically, but there is definitely a progression when a person is in fact heading into a what I described, which is a major depressive episode, that it will start with mild stuff and keep growing. So it’s a symptom, not a cause. The difference can be seen – retroactively. And if a person has a history, than there is a lot more reason to pay close attention, if a “bad mood” doesn’t start to fade away when distractions are introduced.
Just for the record, many “moody” or (what people call) “depressed” or “negative” people don’t work on their middos at all, make everyone around them miserable at times, and still don’t end up with major clinical depression! If you catch them off guard, you will see them getting enjoyment from something. Even they can see the comedy in their refusal to be positive.
It seems that some people will never get this kind of sick. They will get other types of sick, though. For example, perhaps if I experience high levels of distress, and I ignore it, and bottle it up inside, it could end up as a physiological depression.
Other people might have a heart attack long before they have the amount of stress/distress that accumulated in me!
Nobody would condemn them for the heart attack!
Well, almost nobody.
So does that mean I have weak nerves, or that my heart is too strong?!
It’s really hard to understand the dynamics of depression.
As far as suicidal ideation is concerned, I think in the cases you are referring to, it’s considered a symptom. The person is in an unbearable amount of emotional pain with no clue how to make it stop. Perhaps it wouldn’t have gotten that far if they had the ability to honestly face whatever it is that they find unbearable (unacceptable), process it, and skillfully express it clearly enough to get help. Usually that is something that is taught by example, and nobody taught it to them. Often the very real fear of judgement, and rejection by others is enough to prevent them from sharing, or admitting their feelings even to themselves. That’s what therapy is often about.
The more we make other people feel truly “safe”, to share their distress, without fear of any reprisals, or dismissiveness, the more we are doing to literally save lives.
I don’t know if one has to be clinically depressed to be literally Terrified of rejection or judgement, and the resulting pain that they know it will cause. Really, I do not know. But severe terror is not a “bad mood” or a case of “lowered” or, as so many here insist on calling it, “depressed” feelings. Terror does sometimes cause people to do irrational things.
Certainly, clinical depression has a high risk of suicide. That’s probably the most dangerous part of it. How does one escape from the hell inside their own head??
I don’t know why I am even bothering to respond to RebYidd23. Maybe it’s my concern for anyone who could read what he wrote, and use it against themselves.
IF I understood you correctly, you are saying depression is depression, just like cancer is cancer. It’s just a matter of whether or not that particular case is responsive to treatment.
That would be a good analogy, if we didn’t claim to have an array of “tried and true” self-help solutions, and middos improvement programs to treat depression. If the depression doesn’t go away despite those suggestions, would you then say the depression was treatment resistant, or the “patient” was?? Since we have significant sources for those solutions, programs, and self-improvement ideas, it would appear that it is reasonable to expect them to work, at least a little, if the “patient” is trying.
In fact, when it comes to the kind of “depression” that is just a mild, or more intense emotion, those things DO help! Uppers also always work with that: a good joke, or even some ice cream or chocolate gets the most resistant among us to smile, despite ourselves.
Depression(Clinical) doesn’t usually shift much in response to a “good time” The ice cream doesn’t have much of a taste, and the chocolate is kind of flat. The person usually doesn’t find the jokes funny. The exercise is done by rote, with no enthusiasm, effort, or interest. It’s not that the middos program or the exercise isn’t working. IT ISN’T INDICATED.
Treatment resistant Cancer is NEVER considered to be a character flaw of the patient! Actually, it’s a great example though. Because, Loshon Hara is sometimes referred to as a Cancer in our generation, correct? Does that mean that radiation can treat Lashon Hara?! No. Because it isn’t really Cancer literally. It was a metaphor.
Even if there is a continuum, (I don’t know), there is a point where there is a drastic (not gradual) change in symptoms; behaviors, affect, appetite, personal grooming – whatever is affected, is impeded by disinterest. It has become something else. A state in which the patient doesn’t remember how to care. Even if they “try”. It feels empty and meaningless.
For a while, I used to thank HaShem every day for the miracles of life, meaning, satisfaction, will, pleasure…. and emotions – things that I didn’t have while I was (clinically) depressed, and didn’t know that I would ever have again. Boruch HaShem I’ve gotten accustomed to normalcy. I have a range of emotions again, and I’m busy with the vicissitudes of life. I sometimes forget to be thankful.
Which is in itself another miracle.August 18, 2016 11:59 am at 11:59 am #1170037
Thinking Out Loud: Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience. Obviously, it is much more meaningful to hear from someone who actually knows what he/she is talking about.
What I understand from your words is that non-clinical depression can be helped by all the ideas people posted, but that clinical depression is not helped by them. If I understand you correctly, true clinical depression is not helped at all by these things (although it’s possible that these things could have helped before it got to that point)
What I still don’t understand is: if that is the case, then what does help real clinical depression? Is it only medication or are there other options?
It also seems to me that the fact that someone is taking medication does not necessarily mean that that person has the type of depression that you describe and could not necessarily have been helped in any way. I am saying that based on the fact that it has become exceedingly common nowadays to take medication. In fact, I have heard that app. 1/4 or 1/3 of all people in the Western world are on medication for depression (although I would guess that the numbers are different in the Yeshivish world). I can’t imagine that all those people went through what you want through and that it would have been completely impossible for anything else to have helped. Would you call what those people have clinical depression?
Tachlis, it sounds like none of the posters were referring to the real kind of clinical depression that you were describing. Amongst other things, it sounds like someone in that state would not have been capable of posting. Therefore, all the advice given was worthwhile advice.
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