January 27, 2013 2:27 am at 2:27 am #607962
These women all sang shira and it was written in Tanach.
My question is, did they really sing? And how did the men hear the singing?January 27, 2013 3:17 am at 3:17 am #924975
This question, regarding Miriam, was just brought up. I don’t remember who said it, but one answer was that the drums overpowered the voices, which couldn’t be heard.January 27, 2013 3:23 am at 3:23 am #924976
We learnt that yes many of our ancestors sang there are 3 different types of level of singing 1) brain 2) limbs 3) heart only by yam suf did they reach the 3rd level. About Kol eshah I’m sure they sang privately away from the menJanuary 27, 2013 3:31 am at 3:31 am #924977
Thanks DY. And the others?January 27, 2013 3:49 am at 3:49 am #924978
With Miriam all the males also sang so they couldn’t hear each other.
Chana- she cried and sang to Hashem privately in the ?????January 27, 2013 4:00 am at 4:00 am #924979WIYMember
I saw brought down that the Chida in Rosh David says that since there was giluy shechina there was no problem of men having hirhurim from the voices because the men were too afraid (they had pachad from the shechina) to have hirhurim.
This is for Miriam…January 27, 2013 4:09 am at 4:09 am #924980
If I knew the answer, I would have posted. 🙂January 27, 2013 4:20 am at 4:20 am #924981
Superme, do you have a source?January 27, 2013 4:27 am at 4:27 am #924982yitzchokmParticipant
feeling left out? 🙁January 27, 2013 4:41 am at 4:41 am #924983JustHavingFunParticipant
never thought of itJanuary 27, 2013 5:13 am at 5:13 am #924984
T613t- let me get back to you I’m going to try to find the source for youJanuary 27, 2013 5:19 am at 5:19 am #924985Sam2Participant
Sridei Eish?January 27, 2013 6:05 am at 6:05 am #924986
?January 27, 2013 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #924987
Huh? DY is great at answering questions. No reason to feel left out!
Sam2: Thanks but what is the answer? Also, would you please post chapter or page number, my Hebrew is not fast enough to find something in a large sefer.January 27, 2013 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #924988
Thank you, t613t. I think yitzchokm read one of my posts out of context.January 27, 2013 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #924989yitzchokmParticipant
it looks like i saw your post out of context
sorry!January 27, 2013 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #924990
NP! 🙂January 28, 2013 12:53 am at 12:53 am #924992superstarMember
I have an additional question about Devorah: How could she be a judge for men? Is that tznius? But I guess if she could sing infront of men judging is no big deal. ?January 28, 2013 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #924993miritchkaMember
Isnt there something about if its more than a few woman and one cannot discern the voices? I dont know where or when i heard this one.January 28, 2013 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #924994benignumanParticipant
With respect to Miriam it is pretty clear from the posuk that she was leading the women, not singing for the men.
With respect to Chana there is no evidence that she sang in front of men.
With respect to Devorah it is clear that she sang together with Baruch. This has been used as the source of a couple of Kol Isha heterim. One is that if a man is singing also it is okay. The other heter is that there is no chashash hirhur if the women are singing “shirosh v’tishbochos l’Hakodosh boruch hu.”January 28, 2013 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #924995WIYMember
“The other heter is that there is no chashash hirhur if the women are singing “shirosh v’tishbochos l’Hakodosh boruch hu.””
So I can hear your wife sing Shabbos zmiros? Me thinks thats not muttar.January 29, 2013 1:32 am at 1:32 am #924996
superstar- just had a midterm on it devora sat under a “tamar divorah” bwtn beis kel and aye= a few mifarshim ask why? this type of tree is very spread out (branches) thus is for assur yichud so if a man comes to be judged there is no problem and why bwtn these to places because they were very popular places and peope always pass by nno matter what time of day (in shoftim perek daled or vav) is it clear?January 29, 2013 3:31 am at 3:31 am #924997benignumanParticipant
I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I don’t think that most poskim would hold that it is muttar. This heter is given by the Sridei Eish as a limmud zchus on the minhag of the German kehillos where women would sing zmiros on Shabbos and to matir Jewish youth groups in France (akin to NCSY) to have boys and girls sing Jewish songs together. I don’t think even the Sridei Eish meant it as a general heter for all people at all times.
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