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These women all sang shira and it was written in Tanach.
My question is, did they really sing? And how did the men hear the singing?
This question, regarding Miriam, was just brought up. I don’t remember who said it, but one answer was that the drums overpowered the voices, which couldn’t be heard.
We learnt that yes many of our ancestors sang there are 3 different types of level of singing 1) brain 2) limbs 3) heart only by yam suf did they reach the 3rd level. About Kol eshah I’m sure they sang privately away from the men
With Miriam all the males also sang so they couldn’t hear each other.
Chana- she cried and sang to Hashem privately in the ?????
I saw brought down that the Chida in Rosh David says that since there was giluy shechina there was no problem of men having hirhurim from the voices because the men were too afraid (they had pachad from the shechina) to have hirhurim.
This is for Miriam…
T613t,
If I knew the answer, I would have posted. 🙂
DaasYochid,
feeling left out? 🙁
cool question
never thought of it
T613t- let me get back to you I’m going to try to find the source for you
Sridei Eish?
Yitzchokm,
?
Thank you, t613t. I think yitzchokm read one of my posts out of context.
dy
it looks like i saw your post out of context
sorry!
NP! 🙂
I have an additional question about Devorah: How could she be a judge for men? Is that tznius? But I guess if she could sing infront of men judging is no big deal. ?
Isnt there something about if its more than a few woman and one cannot discern the voices? I dont know where or when i heard this one.
With respect to Miriam it is pretty clear from the posuk that she was leading the women, not singing for the men.
With respect to Chana there is no evidence that she sang in front of men.
With respect to Devorah it is clear that she sang together with Baruch. This has been used as the source of a couple of Kol Isha heterim. One is that if a man is singing also it is okay. The other heter is that there is no chashash hirhur if the women are singing “shirosh v’tishbochos l’Hakodosh boruch hu.”
beni
“The other heter is that there is no chashash hirhur if the women are singing “shirosh v’tishbochos l’Hakodosh boruch hu.””
So I can hear your wife sing Shabbos zmiros? Me thinks thats not muttar.
superstar- just had a midterm on it devora sat under a “tamar divorah” bwtn beis kel and aye= a few mifarshim ask why? this type of tree is very spread out (branches) thus is for assur yichud so if a man comes to be judged there is no problem and why bwtn these to places because they were very popular places and peope always pass by nno matter what time of day (in shoftim perek daled or vav) is it clear?
WIY,
I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I don’t think that most poskim would hold that it is muttar. This heter is given by the Sridei Eish as a limmud zchus on the minhag of the German kehillos where women would sing zmiros on Shabbos and to matir Jewish youth groups in France (akin to NCSY) to have boys and girls sing Jewish songs together. I don’t think even the Sridei Eish meant it as a general heter for all people at all times.
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