Did Romney have any good points against Trump?

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  • #1141995
    charliehall
    Participant

    “How dare you malign and criticize other Jews!”

    I have been maligned and criticized here for years. Have you ever come to my defense?

    “we might Not have a Communist/DemonCrat for president”

    If you think Obama is a Communist, you really aren’t in touch with reality. Were Obama really a Communist you would have long since been rounded up and sent to the gulag!

    “He has had a very checkered career as a businessman”

    Actually his many bankruptcies appear to be a deliberate strategy to coerce his creditors into accepting equity stakes in his projects. How anyone can defend this kind of behavior is beyond me!

    “You, who considers Avi Weiss to be your spiritual adviser.”

    He isn’t, but since you brought him up, you might want to do some internet searches to find a video in which Rabbi Weiss charges the podium at a David Duke for President rally. Rabbi Weiss carried a “Duke — Nazi for the 90s” sign with him and was forcefully removed from the podium. Rabbi Weiss knows an enemy of the Jewish people and doesn’t have to “do research” on Nazis or KKK members.

    “twist Judaism to fit your sick, liberal world-view”

    Using public funds to support those who are less well off is “twisting” Judaism, “sick”, or “liberal”? Better tell Chazal and Rambam that they are sick and twisted.

    #1141996
    Health
    Participant

    Charlie -“If you think Obama is a Communist, you really aren’t in touch with reality. Were Obama really a Communist you would have long since been rounded up and sent to the gulag.”

    I’ll only respond to this one, because the others weren’t my comments!

    Of course Obama and the leftist are Commies. The reason that we aren’t sent to the Gulag, is because we have a Republican Congress!

    #1141997
    Sam2
    Participant

    Health: Then why are you defending Trump (or attacking Hilary as a response to attacks on Trump) at almost every turn?

    Charlie: you’re being unfair. You know that Chumash and many comments in the Rishonim are equally readable as being for or against most not-extreme conservative or liberal fiscal opinions (e.g. socialism and Ayn Rand are both against the Mishnah in Avos). But anything in between can claim the Rambam as agreeing with them. Don’t pretend that either side has the backing of Torah sources to the exclusion of the other.

    #1141998
    Phil
    Participant

    Charlie,

    Chazal, including the Rambam, would cringe at how you pervert Judaism to support your warped liberal ideas.

    Only a sick mah-yofis could comment so favorably about Obama and Carter, yet be so vile to fellow Jews.

    #1141999
    squeak
    Participant

    Joe – I wish I could say that I was rooting for Trump but I simply cannot. He stands for ideas that a lot of people are clamoring for – breaking out of sissy mode, restoring prosperity, protecting America’s homeland from invasion – but aside from giving us the impression that he stands for those things he hasn’t spoken substantively on any topic.

    He needs to show us he can say things besides for insults. And that when he does, which has been rare so far, they won’t be worded in such a way that makes us wonder if he has any common sense. I don’t fault him for being too slow in renouncing Duke, but I do find it intolerable to hear that his stated reason for wanting waterboarding is so that we can play the game the way “they” play the game. I don’t fault him for using his brash arrogance as his central campaign theme, but when he lets people who have no foreign policy experience malign him because building hotels in foreign countries doesn’t count I fault him for not fighting for himself. If he was a contestant on his own show he would have already been fired for that.

    I support Trump ironically. Meaning, I would be amused if he won because it would be a clear admission of the sorry state of politics today. There is no one who is worth supporting. At least with Trump we will get 8 (or 12) years of entertainment. And we fulfill Adams’ ideal of electing Zaphod Beeblebrox, which would be thrilling.

    #1142000
    Health
    Participant

    Sam 2-“Health: Then why are you defending Trump (or attacking Hilary as a response to attacks on Trump) at almost every turn?”

    Because of what I posted previously:

    “If it comes down to Trump vs. Hillary, Trump is the lesser of two evils!”

    #1142001
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I think Hillary and Trump are equally evil, so I’m voting for whoever’s less orange.

    #1142002
    Health
    Participant

    Mr.Yidd -“I think Hillary and Trump are equally evil, so I’m voting for whoever’s less orange.”

    From previous -“Do you think that she (Hillary) could protect us in nuclear war?!?”

    #1142003
    Sam2
    Participant

    Health: I really don’t think that Trump can. I think Trump is far more likely to make foolish nuclear decisions than Hilary is.

    #1142004
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    health -an other Trump supporters! Just for those who think he is not a fascist an a Nazi- please not the Nazi salute-just like at Nurnberg-at Trump rallies. Started by the “Fuhrer” himself. Welcome to the brownshirts ! You don’t believe me? Check the newsclips!

    #1142005
    Sam2
    Participant

    And Godwin’s Law. Yay.

    ROB: Having similarities to a Nazi does not make one a Nazi. There are lots of important differences also.

    #1142006
    Health
    Participant

    Sam2 -“Health: I really don’t think that Trump can. I think Trump is far more likely to make foolish nuclear decisions than Hilary is.”

    I don’t think you’re right. But even if I entertain your post, who will be Hillary’s advisor – Billy Boy?!? LOL! (:O

    Who be Trump’s advisor – some intelligent conservative!

    #1142007
    Sam2
    Participant

    Health: Or an unintelligent conservative. Or an unintelligent liberal. Or no one. Because, let’s be honest, if Trump makes up his mind he won’t listen to anyone but himself.

    If you don’t want Hilary as president, though, campaign against Trump. That was one of Romney’s biggest points. Trump can’t beat Hilary. The rest can.

    #1142008
    squeak
    Participant

    And another one of his points that I don’t agree with. Who says he can’t beat Hillary? It’s a desperate appeal to try and manipulate voters into giving their support to Cruz. Desperate and pathetic.

    #1142009
    squeak
    Participant

    One thing is for sure – come November the democrats will resurrect the dead and revitalize the phrase “vote early, vote often” to make sure they can check the box for woman president. Trump will have a rough time if he doesn’t engage at that level too.

    #1142010
    Joseph
    Participant

    It appears obvious that Rubio and Kasich have no chance of winning the nomination. Their failure to withdraw, effectively, only serves to guarantee a Trump nomination — as the only way to defeat Trump is to have a one-on-one contest against him. It could theoretically be any one, but only Cruz is strong enough at this point. And the one-on-one needs to happen before Tuesday’s upcoming primaries in Florida and Ohio.

    Since it is apparent that Rubio and Kasich will be putting their own political interests over that of the party and nation by remaining in the race and thus insuring a Trump nomination and Clinton presidency, the results of the rest of election calendar through November is mostly predictable.

    #1142011
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Joseph: you are spouting conventional wisdom and that has been upended all year long. If Rubio withdraws now, that opens the door wide to a trump victory. Rubio stays in and he has a chance-especially as I think that Cruz is going to syphon off many votes from trump.

    Sam2- about the only thing that Trump has not done yet is having his brownshirts kill someone. Everything else has been done. Threatening people at his rallies, threatening The Speaker of the House, demonizing minorities and disabled people (remember the eugenic program of the Nazis?), ordering soldiers to commit war crimes….etc. So, Pray tell where the big difference is. Hitler also won elections.

    #1142012
    Sam2
    Participant

    Joseph: Incorrect. Rubio and Kasich need to stay in until at least next Tuesday to win Florida and Ohio, respectively. It will be very difficult for Trump to get to 1237 delegates without them, which is what he needs to get the nomination (he won’t win it at a brokered convention).

    #1142013
    Joseph
    Participant

    My primary point is that this race must turn into a one-on-one in order to defeat Trump. I also am saying this has to happen prior to the upcoming Super Tuesday. Now it doesn’t have to be Cruz who stays in and Rubio and Kasich who withdraws. Any one of the three can stay in as long as the other two withdraw. Any one of the three can defeat Trump if it becomes a one-on-one. The reason I suggest Cruz must stay and the others withdraw is because Cruz is consistently winning some (and getting stronger) while the other two are losing all or almost all (and continuously getting weaker). Though if they agree amongst themselves that either Rubio or Kasich should remain in, that would work too. But it is highly improbable Cruz would agree to withdraw considering he is significantly doing better than Rubio and Kasich (and winning multiple States).

    Personally, I would prefer Cruz to be President over the other candidates, but nevertheless prefer Rubio to be the Republican nominee since he is stronger than Cruz in the general election. But what I am commenting here on is the political realities, not my personal preferences. Trump will almost certainly lost the general election. And he is a bad person to be President.

    There is a serious likelihood that Rubio will lose his homestate of Florida and/or Kasich will lose his homestate of Ohio. Both to Trump. And since they’re both winner-take-all, Trump winning both will make him instantly the almost absolute certain nominee after this Tuesday. So if all three anti-Trump’s remain in the race this Tuesday there is a strong possibility, and even likelihood, Trump will have effectively wrapped up his victory with his wins in Florida and Ohio.

    #1142014
    Joseph
    Participant

    Because Trump will win all the delegates in the winner-take-all States by simply winning a plurality against multiple candidates. The only way to defeat Trump in the winner-take-all States is to have only one candidate opposing Trump. Multiple other candidates in the race will let Trump win the States even though Trump can’t hit 50% of the popular vote.

    #1142015
    Health
    Participant

    ROB -“So, Pray tell where the big difference is. Hitler also won elections”

    Do you believe everything comes from Hashem? If the only candidates are either a right wing guy or a leftist that will make perversion worse than Obama, you should vote for the right wing guy. The reason that we’ve come to this is because morality is at a low – time low!

    Trump popularity is a warning from Hashem!

    #1142016
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    This thread started with Romney, so I’m going to ask a question about him: what’s the big deal with Romney? The Republicans bring him out as this big guy who can save them. Why? He doesn’t have much actual political experience. His only position was one term as governor. He has been in 3 elections, and only won one of them. So what’s the big deal with Romney?

    #1142017
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Health: Trump popularity id from Hashem. So Hitler’s popularity was from Hashem too? Do you realize that there is such a thing as “bechirah”?

    #1142018
    squeak
    Participant

    Rob – he’s not like hitler. Frankly, its quite offensive to those of us who actually know from the nazi era that you compare your piddling trifles to something quite serious and tragic. You have to either be very insensitive or very ignorant to cry nazism every time something bothers you. I’m hurt that a frum yid such as yourself, who from what I understand is no naive youngster, can stoop so low. Please cease and desist.

    DaMo – Romney is a nothing, but who are they going to get? One of the Bush men? That would be worse. Not to mention it would look personally motivated because Trump openly attacked them. Reagan is dead. Other Republicans past or present simply don’t have the same national recognition. I agree, it was an almost worthless attempt by a worthless politician who has more in common with Obama than I can stomach, but the donor base is desperate.

    Joe – all I can say is that the more you dislike Trump the more I want to like him 🙂

    #1142019
    writersoul
    Participant

    I do NOT think that Trump is like Hitler (I found the hand-raising video creepy, but I’d never go that far) but I do think that some of the attitudes that helped Hitler get into power- a nation in distress, a perceived outer enemy (or two or three…) and the xenophobia coming with it, the desire to rally around someone who says aloud what people are only willing to think and glorifies nationalism and populism, dreaming of a return to some kind of prior greatness that they feel has been challenged by “the other”- have disturbing similarities. While electing Trump won’t be electing Hitler IMO, what scares me is that if Hitler were running, people probably would vote for him for the same reasons they like Trump.

    The populism especially concerns me (and this is about Trump as well). It’s never been good for the Jews in any of the countries we’ve lived in. Ever. Not to be boring by quoting Neimoller, but still, the xenophobia that is directed at others could turn to us at any point, particularly given Israel’s complicated political situation in this day and age. (To be fair, though, I find it generally disturbing as well- I don’t think it should be directed against the others either…)

    #1142020
    squeak
    Participant

    Well thank you for intelligently communicating your opposition. Though you failed to not quote neimoller you did at least manage to keep it down to a paraphrasing.

    I don’t think Trump is a nationalist. He is an egoist. He needs to be admired and its a blight to him that other nations can and do now look down on the US. I don’t think he has anything against Mexicans any more than he does against Jews. He is ashamed that we are too weak to protect our country against unwanted immigration. I don’t think he has anything against Muslims either. He is ashamed that we are too weak to truly stand up against terrorism and wipe it out. If America is weak and pathetic and Donald Trump is American, then how can he live with himself? Its cognitive dissonance that is eating him up and driving him.

    Will he be able to change much? I doubt it, but I’d like to see him try. A little bombast would be refreshing on the heels of Obama, a despicable man who never got any higher than the soles of our enemies feet.

    #1142021
    Sam2
    Participant

    squeak: There are similarities in Trump’s populism and nativism to Hitler’s rise. No one is saying that Trump is like Hitler was in 1939. They are saying that Trump is moving in a direction and gathering supporters very similar to what Hitler did. (Though comparing him to George Wallace in 1968 is probably a much better comparison.)

    #1142022
    writersoul
    Participant

    squeak: What Sam said, sort of. What I think about Trump is immaterial- it’s the way he’s attracting people, the kind of people he’s attracting, and what the people are hearing and want, that disturbs me more. It’s not whether Trump is a nationalist, it’s that the people he’s attracting are nationalists. Whatever he may believe, he’s espousing populism and people want it and are hearing it.

    I think it’s a bit generous to say that he identifies with America so much in such personal terms that those are his motivations… I see it as just him being a forceful person who’s used to wheeling, dealing and getting what he wants. He always gets what he wants and when he’s in charge of America, America will get what it wants because he’ll be the one getting it for us.

    I never hated Obama, though I’ve disliked him more and more recently for various reasons, but I think that bombast and political inexperience are not what we need right now. I don’t need the government tied up in order to prove some kind of a point about how Democrats are awful. I can’t stand Cruz for various reasons, but at least he’d just start political battles, like a politician, you know? Life as usual. Trump would be a bull in a china shop and we can’t risk so much breaking. I think there’s a value sometimes in leaving politics to the politicians.

    Sam2: That’s fair, about Wallace. It puts it in more American terms.

    #1142023
    Health
    Participant

    ROB -“Health: Trump popularity id from Hashem. So Hitler’s popularity was from Hashem too?”

    Of course it was!

    “Do you realize that there is such a thing as “bechirah”?”

    You obviously don’t know the definition of “Bechirah”!

    #1142024
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Health: pray explain to us in your very erudite ways what “bechira” really is…..

    And I trust that , according to our words,you will accept that “medinat Israel” is from Hashem too…Remember that when we argue about the medinah next time…..

    #1142025
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    squeak: writersoul and Sam2 clearly explained the similarities to Hitler and to these views, I suscribe fully. Allow me to add that the most dangerous part of a Trump Presidency is his thin skin and his impulsiveness. He would be Nixon on steroids with his list of enemies, he would be Obama on super steroids with executive orders when he could not get his way in Congress and, Heaven forbid, we don’t know what he would do to any nation that defies him-and that includes Israel where he wants to be “neutral” .The comparison to Hitler is not in actual facts -yet!- but in how he demagogues everything and how he demonizes minorities…If you can’t see the similarities to Hitler then you have forgotten how Hitler came to power-throught elections!

    Actually, I think he is more like Mussolini than Hitler but that is scant consolation.And the most recent figure in the US to be compared to is George Wallace who had the exact same electoral success as Trump-in the Deep South and in the old Rust belt. Look it up.

    #1142026
    Health
    Participant

    ROB -“Health: pray explain to us in your very erudite ways what “bechira” really is…..”

    Why don’t you ask Sam? He always has Hashkofah opinions!

    I’ll let you know if I agree or disagree.

    “And I trust that , according to our words,you will accept that “medinat Israel” is from Hashem too…Remember that when we argue about the medinah next time”

    Yes it was! It was a punishment from him! Right after WWII, it was an ideal time for Moshiach to come, but the Jews didn’t do Teshuva.

    Instead they did a Masseh Egel, with the creation of the Medina!

    #1142027
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    health: well, I burst out laughing readng your response. Your comments are becoming the stuff of legends, you should try stand up comic!

    #1142028
    Health
    Participant

    Squeak -“I don’t think he has anything against Muslims either. He is ashamed that we are too weak to truly stand up against terrorism and wipe it out.”

    I personally don’t want Trump to be Pres., but another Republican!

    That said – I listened to his speech about the Judge and that they let the guy free. Trump said he’s an ISIS supporter. This country has a problem with terrorism, and it was caused by the DemonCrats!

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