September 2, 2021 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #2005465Avi KParticipant
Rational, I once told this to someone from a Chassidic background and he took umbrage. He said that there has to be a pesak. If it’s kosher a jew has to eat it after making a beracha in order to elevate the animal soul. BTW, the Chafetz Chaim preferred glatt yosher.September 2, 2021 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #2005478
L’maaisa, it is much worse than pritzas geder for someone from a community that holds non-Cholov Yisroel is pure Cholov Akum, and hence utterly assur no differently than milk from North Korea, such as virtually the entire Chasidish velt (i.e. commonsaychel with his Rebbishe stock) and others (i.e. Oberlanders), than it would be to eat non-glatt by someone from the MO world (such as DaMoshe, even if he tries to taaina that Hashem made available the wonderful foods from Hebrew National) and various other communities. Since even by the latter we acknowledge that m’ikur hadin non-glatt is kosher whereas by the former they pasken that what others refer to as Cholov Stam is actually Cholov Akum mamish.September 2, 2021 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #2005600
Despite their disagreements, the satmar rov said that rav moshe was “mara de’asra” of America – his psak isn’t just one of many; it has defining characteristics; rav moshe’s influence was almost universalSeptember 2, 2021 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #2005599
Ujm, i disagree – meat is something that even MO don’t play games with; tzadikim wouldn’t eat basar shehoreh bo chacham..
Rav moshe was not the first to have a kulah with cholov akum shailos; the pri chadash was very meikil across the board, holding that the takanah was not lo-plug. Many communities followed the pri chodosh in Europe. Rav Moshe argues that even if we say it is lo plug, we have an “anan sahadi”. Gedolim who argued on the psak, I don’t know if they held it was, excuse the pun, “udderly” treif – the satmar rov and the tzeilimer rov made great effort to bring cholov yisroel to the tzibur, but mayhaycha taisa that they held it was totally assur? Also, if a chasidish person ate cholov stam, aside from the issue of nedarim, can we say that he ate treif? The satmar rov had tremendous respect for rav moshe and only engaged in machlokes when he felt it was extremely crucial, but can anyone who knows the facts please shed some light on the matter?
I think there’s a big difference between something no one does today (non-glatt, and a shailoh of a deoraysoh) and something that many yereyim veshlaymim do (cholov stam, which is at most, a derabonon) in terms of what’s the “geder” of a poretz geder (I can’t resist puns)September 2, 2021 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #2005656
Rav Moshe was matir non chalav yisroel milk because of mirtas, fear of the government inspection of mixing tamei animal milk in it.September 2, 2021 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #2005655
The Yechavah Daas (3,56) from Rav Ovadyah Yosef about glat meat where the ashkanezim follow the sefardim in eating glat.September 2, 2021 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #2005678
Reb Eliezer; the mirsas he says makes it an anan sahadi – i left out the “why”September 3, 2021 12:54 am at 12:54 am #2005684
Nu, according to Rav Moshe a Baal Nefesh is machmir on only Cholov Yisroel. A Baal Nefesh surely constitutes a higher level of frumkeit, which makes this germane to this thread and discussion.September 3, 2021 7:16 am at 7:16 am #2005697rationalParticipant
ujm: In your last post, your first sentence contained 85 words and was quite unintelligible. Please shorten those run-on sentences. That will help me understand your message. Thank you.September 3, 2021 9:43 am at 9:43 am #2005704
rational: You’ll need a Jewish education to understand the conversation; improving your English will only go so far.September 3, 2021 9:44 am at 9:44 am #2005708DaMosheParticipant
Joseph, you have no idea what a baal nefesh is, or what R’ Moshe zt”l meant by it. R’ Dovid Feinstein zt”l told someone that he didn’t think he himself was a baal nefesh – so clearly it’s not something you CHOOSE to be, it’s something you have to grow into.
Don’t try to make things fit your twisted agenda.
For all the chumros you like to push, I think you will be found guilty of yuhara.September 3, 2021 11:32 am at 11:32 am #2005763
DaMoshe, while you’re enjoying your Hebrew National with your MO community that you believe you must eat to avoid din vcheshbon since Hashem must’ve gaven it to you to enjoy, all I can relate about your comment is that a Baal Nefesh is, lchol hadeios, on a higher spiritual plain and on a higher level of frumkeit than a non-Baal Nefesh.
And that’s all I’m saying. Nowhere have I defined what a Baal Nefesh is or what one must do to reach that lofty status. (Other than quoting Rav Moshe.)September 3, 2021 11:36 am at 11:36 am #2005764
It easy to asser but to be matir, one needs special education and knowledge. Glatt is explained in Yechaveh Daas (3,56) from Rav Ovadyah Yosef. In this the ashkenazim follow the sefardim.September 3, 2021 11:45 am at 11:45 am #2005765
Aseres Yermei Teshuva it says we should only drink chalav yisroel, so Hashem will be more merciful towards us as we do meshiras hadin like bentching on a kezayis.September 3, 2021 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #2005774
There are different indications in teshuvos from rav Moshe – he clearly forbade CS to be served in yeshivos, to teach children to be careful when there is even a chashash issur. On the other hand, he calls it a chumra and not a din elsewhere.
MTJ talmidim have always told me that rav dovid was meikil mainly because he held there’s no inyan even for a baal nefesh. Rav Reuven holds that there is and he only started being makpid on CY a few years ago.September 3, 2021 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #2005790Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
RebE> Aseres Yermei Teshuva it says we should only drink chalav yisroel
You are right, so those who say that presume that people drink CS the rest of the year … And those who drink CY abandoned this wonderful Rosh Hashona minhagSeptember 3, 2021 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #2005793Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
> I doubt one can even find non-glatt at a reputable butcher.
I think it was due t hashgahot moving to get the market from more observant community, so they stopped certifying non-glatt. That lead to, obviously, lack of non-glatt meat from reputable companies. Presumably, it is easy now to sell non-glatt to non-kosher market.
I think the picture was different in previous times when local butchers were in charge.September 4, 2021 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #2005820rationalParticipant
ujm: בושה לךSeptember 5, 2021 8:57 am at 8:57 am #2005938Avi KParticipant
RE, who says? What I heard is that one should only eat pat Yisrael (Kitzur Shulchan Aruch).September 5, 2021 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #2006067
Avi, while not mentioned by rav moshe, the rationale seems to apply and is something of a kal vechomer; pas palter has an extremely solid foundation of heter, with communities being meikil for literally thousands of years, yet we’re taught to take on this chumra for the aseres yemei teshuva….one would think that if someone is meikil on a similar derabonon food shailoh (without the historical precedent of the former) it would follow to be machmir during the aseres yemei teshuva, wanting to show Hashem that we want to improve and grow.
As good of an idea as it sounds, have any gedolei poskim advocated for it?
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