Disciplining a child

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  • #616727
    Joseph
    Participant

    What is the best methodology in disciplining a child?

    #1113948
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    methodology?

    #1113949
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    A chinuch that would last a lifetime

    #1113950
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Speak softly and carry a big stick

    #1113951
    Joseph
    Participant

    How big does the stick need to be?

    #1113952

    chanoch l’naar al pi darco”

    each child needs his/her personal chinuch that is perfect for him/her

    what works for one kid doesnt always work for another kid, even when in the same family.

    #1113953
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Really listen to them. Not the scripted dialogue from the parenting books. Don’t pretend to be infallible. This will probably not work, but if it does, the child will believe himself to be destined to become infallible and will be bothered when he stays human.

    #1113954
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Joseph,

    It depends how big the kid is

    #1113955
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    What if you have kids of different sizes?

    #1113956
    Joseph
    Participant

    CA, at what age is the biggest stick required, and how big should it be for older kids?

    #1113957
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    who cares, as long as there is a lollipop at the end of it.

    #1113958
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Rebyidd,

    Numerous sticks

    Joe,

    When the kid gets bar/bas mitzvahed (after that he/she isn’t your chiyuv of disciplining)

    #1113959
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Then how are you supposed to learn and set a good example?

    #1113960
    Joseph
    Participant

    CA, what size stick with a 12 year old boy?

    After your child is 13 years old (or 12 with girls) you shouldn’t discipline them anymore?

    #1113961
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Huh?

    #1113962
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    There’s no chiyuv of chinuch after the child is bar/bas mitzvah which is why you’re patur from their onshim

    #1113963
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    How can you turn a page when your hand is full of sticks?

    #1113964
    Joseph
    Participant

    So should a parent stop disciplining a boy once he reaches 13 years of age and a girl when she reaches 12?

    Also, what kind of stick should be used when he’s 11 and 12?

    #1113965
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Peppermint candy stick.

    #1113966
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    that was my joke. that’s plagiarism!

    #1113967
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Rebyidd,

    With the other hand

    Joseph,

    Note I didn’t say to use it I just said to carry it/them

    Either way one stick should be good enough as long as it’s big enough for all your kids, this is probably the best option

    #1113968
    Joseph
    Participant

    CA, but Tanach says to use it and Shulchan Aruch paskens l’halacha that it should be used.

    #1113969
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Joe,

    Isn’t carrying it to threaten the child using it?

    #1113970
    squeak
    Participant

    CA you must be one of Obama’s top advisors

    #1113971
    Joseph
    Participant

    CA you must be one of Obama’s top advisors

    LOL

    CA: You didn’t address whether a parent should stop disciplining their children once he or she is 13 or 12, respectively.

    #1113972
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    joseph – very often when i picture you i have an image of that Moshe friedman guy from satmar/nk. any relation?

    #1113973
    Joseph
    Participant

    No, I’m more of the Brisk variety.

    #1113974
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    Rambam says it best:

    ??????????? ??? ???????–????? ??????????? ?????????? ????????, ????? ??????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????????–??????? ??????????? ??????? ?????? ???????, ????????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ??????, ??????????? ????????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????????, ???????????? ???????? ???????? ??????.

    1. discipline in private.

    2. speak b’nachas.

    3. explain to them very clearly why they are wrong (don’t just say “because I said so.”)

    #1113975
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Squeak,

    Lol, actually obamas advisers do the opposite they talk tough and don’t even carry a stick

    Joe,

    See my comment above about onshim

    #1113976
    Joseph
    Participant

    Does anyone agree with coffee addict that boys 13 and older and girls 12 and older should not be disciplined anymore?

    #1113977
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    got it. didn’t realize that was to me….i’ll have to mull that one over and take off your up-hat.

    #1113978
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    There are no boys over 13 or girls over 12.

    #1113979
    Joseph
    Participant

    RY: Syag is not a girl?

    #1113980
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    If she is over 12 she is not a girl anymore.

    #1113981
    Joseph
    Participant

    Syag, if you’re over 12 there can be no taking off my up-hat.

    #1113982
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Joe

    Rebyidd is right you asked about children not son/daughter

    #1113983
    Joseph
    Participant

    CA, so you’re saying that people should still discipline their own children over 13/12 but should discipline other people’s children only until age 13/12. Okay.

    Until what age should one discipline their own children? And how should the discipline change after age 13/12?

    #1113985
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    joseph, that is downright creepy…

    #1113986
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    No Joe,

    I’m saying after 13/12 they aren’t called children so it has to stop at 12/13

    #1113987
    Joseph
    Participant

    Syag, that was my initial reaction too. But then I was thinking that perhaps it’s a cultural thing. Maybe CA is Bucharian?

    #1113988
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Joe,

    Nope

    #1113990
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    discipline will change post-12/13, but the concept is the same. for example, if your 15 year old son stays out too late, you should certainly have a conversation with him about your rules, safety, the negative influence of peers, bitul zman, etc. if he doesn’t listen to you, then can take away a privilege like using your car or something.

    #1113991
    Joseph
    Participant

    And if your 15 year old doesn’t drive what other loss of privileges can effect significant change in behavior?

    #1113992
    M
    Participant

    Go to a frum parenting class, since if those people are giving talks about parenting, it must be that they know the answers to these questions. I’m sure that the children of all people giving parenting classes have come out super.

    More seriously, if I hear about a person giving a parenting class I wonder, oh, and how did that work out for you? If their own children do not testify to the effectiveness of their parent’s child-rearing methods, then it would be silly to waste our time listening to them.

    #1113993
    Joseph
    Participant

    M, so you beat your own path and disregard others advice?

    #1113994
    M
    Participant

    Joseph: “M, so you beat your own path and disregard others advice?”

    Excellent point — no, but I am wary of advice from people that cannot produce any track record of success. Would you listen to a stock analyst that is not a successful trader? I would hope not. Would you listen to marriage advice from a person that is not happily married? I would hope not. Why would you listen to parenting advice from a person that has no evidence to show that they are a good parent?

    And I don’t think for a second that I’m the best parent in the world. I’m probably not the best in the world, and probably not the worst either. I’m ok being somewhere in the middle. I have never seen any claim, let alone evidence, to show that people that are “good parents” end up raising “good kids”. I’m sure you have many friends that came from “amazing parents” that didn’t turn out too well, and kids that grew up in very rough family situations that came out great.

    #1113995
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    Joseph- the privileges depend on the family and circumstance, obviously, but the logic remains the same.

    #1113996
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Supporting tour son post bar/bas mitzvah is considered chesed and not a chiyuv (you can tell I don’t have teenagers yet)

    #1113997
    Joseph
    Participant

    CA, how is it relevant that your children are still pre-teens? Does the Halacha change once your children are teens?

    #1113998
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Which Halacha?

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