December 14, 2021 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #2041769
7 firefighters from the Judea and Samaria district who lead a religious lifestyle were not placed on operational shifts at their station after refusing to shave their beards.
(Dec 14 ’21)
Comment, if it had only been this particular case, one might be arguing the treatment is against beards not against religious people as a whole…December 15, 2021 12:39 am at 12:39 am #2041818
from UK FAQ: you need to be clean shaven around the jawline area for the breathing apparatus to make an effective seal.
NY court apparently overrruled that, so maybe there are devices that allow beards. Maybe someone should sponsor those.December 15, 2021 12:39 am at 12:39 am #2041819
I was wrong, court decision was overturn in June 2021
The Second Circuit Court of Appeals has overturned a lower court decision that concluded that FDNY must allow firefighters with a skin condition an accommodation to have beards. In doing so the court concluded in clear and unambiguous terms… and I quote: “An accommodation is not reasonable within the meaning of the ADA if it is specifically prohibited by a binding safety regulation promulgated by a federal agency.”December 16, 2021 10:55 am at 10:55 am #2042348ZSKParticipant
Last I checked, Israel doesn’t have to comply with the ADA. It’s a different country.
And we’re probably only hearing half of the story, like usual.December 16, 2021 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #2042397
There are plenty of jobs to do at a fire, some are interior FFs, some man the pumps etc. All the VFD in Rockland in the frum areas plus the KJVFD and Bloomingburg all have members with beards and to the fire departments in the Amish areas. This is a non issue,December 16, 2021 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #2042436
Hence, it’s part of overall discrimination . Especially in light of Omer Bar Lev rationalizing Arab terror while generalizing an entire population , which Bennet criticized him about.
Shilo Freid, Makor Rishon, 8 Tevet 5782. (12/12/2021):
Minister Bar-Lev tried to explain the reason for the attack on “Shimon Hatzadik”, the right revolted.
In an interview given by the Minister of Internal Security on Channel 12, he explained that the girl was arguing with her parents, and therefore stabbed a Jewish woman. “If you will” response: “Stop making excuses for antisemitic terrorists”
MK Simcha Rotman … attacked Minister Bar-Lev’s statement and said: “I to Tommy thought that the role of the Minister of Internal Security was to thwart terrorist attacks, not to give them excuses. In Israel there are many people with personal problems. They do not go and do “Attacks. The Minister of Internal Security who justifies the attacks is delusional, but apparently those who are in coalition with the Hamas sister movement are very quick to come up with ideological support for terrorism.”
Makor Rishon, 10 Tevet 5782. (14/12/2021):
Bennett in response to Bar-Lev’s words: “It is forbidden to include an entire public.”
Prime Minister Naftali Bennett responded to Bar-Lev’s remarks a day after the Secretary of Homeland Security spoke with a representative of the US administration about “settler violence.”
Hillel Bitton Rosen, NOW14, 11 Tevet 5782. (15/12/2021):
Police sources: The statement about the settlers’ violence is political
Settler terrorism? Nationalist crime? Sources in the police and the defense establishment disagree with Minister Bar-Lev’s statements.
Sources in the police: “Our preoccupation with Judea and Samaria is almost exclusively with terrorism and Arab crime. To say that Jewish nationalist crime should be dealt with as a central goal is a statement that stems from the change of government and nothing more. And to concentrate effort. ”
Other members of the defense establishment reinforce the words of those officials in the police and say: “There is no doubt that in Judea and Samaria the main problem is Arab terrorism. We work around the clock to thwart terrorist attacks, and despite this there are hundreds of terrorist incidents.”
In recent months, there have been about 400 terrorist attacks per month perpetrated by Arabs against Jews, around the clock, some of which have resulted in bodily and mental injuries.December 16, 2021 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #2042455
@shalom what the heck does this last response have anything to do with firefightingDecember 16, 2021 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #2042528
common > all have members with beards
So, do they tuck beards into the masks or have special masks? We have here a question of fact, not opinion. You can also call up Afghani Taliban to see how they are doing it now.December 16, 2021 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #2042565
@AAQ, They do everything short entering the building, for example venting, pump operation etcDecember 16, 2021 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #2042604
common > They do everything short entering the building
Oh, so it is a real issue. How does it work in those remote Israeli locations? Do they have the luxury of having supporting personnel that can not fulfil the core mission?December 16, 2021 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #2042634
Please refer to the beginning of the thread at my comment regarding discrimination AS A WHOLE against Jews.
The point is especially in Judea Samaria by current changed Gov. In Israel, coalition alliance with Abbas, Meretz, etc..
Gut Shabbos.December 22, 2021 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #2044147charliehallParticipant
Many great rabbis have been clean shaven. Electric razors have been around since 1933.
Being a firefighter is almost the perfect career for someone who wants a Torah lifestsyle. Most of the time you sit and wait for a call, which in NYC might only come once a week. Get paid to learn! And it would be halachically required to stop the learning for a fire call as it is pikuach nefesh!!! Pay and benefits are good, with generous early retirement.
(FWIW I have had a beard since early 1986, which is the last time I have shaved. I keep it very short, though.)December 22, 2021 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #2044151🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
1986? I was so sure you were a decade younger than you probably are.December 23, 2021 8:36 am at 8:36 am #2044176
@charliehall, there are around 1000 frum FFs, almost all are volunteers, frankly on a fireground there is not a drop of difference if your paid or volunteer. majority of the FFs in Monsey, Lawrence and Woodmere are frum and quite a few have beards.December 23, 2021 11:33 am at 11:33 am #2044223
If you are saving people, would it be an issue to shave your beard, even if it gives you an easier fit into the mask? Will then community look down at him or, otherwise, here goes Shmerel who had a beard for 40 years and now had strength to shave it off in order to save those of us who are not careful with lighting candles and using unsafe platas for heilike shabbos?
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