September 12, 2016 12:09 am at 12:09 am #618361
Do you discuss it – why or why not? What are the pro and cons of discussing your (and their) salary with colleagues, family, friends and/or neighbors.September 12, 2016 12:13 am at 12:13 am #1178729
Or in online discussions. (Feel free to post your salary below.)September 12, 2016 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1178730
“(Feel free to post your salary below.)”
lol. I don’t think anyone wants to know my salary.September 12, 2016 12:22 am at 12:22 am #1178731
I always wished people would be more open about these things (both salary and expenses) because I think it would make it much easier for me to figure out how I’m supposed to do things. People tend to be pretty quiet about these things, or maybe it’s just that I’m scared to ask because I was taught not to and I’m scared that it’s rude to ask. But I always wish people would be more open, because I feel like it makes it so much easier for me to figure out how to manage if I have some idea how others are managing. How can I know what’s a normal salary or a normal amount to spend on things if I don’t know what others do?
I do think that in EY, people are more likely to be open about these things. In more materialistic societies, people are more likely to consider it a personal topic because they define themselves by how much money they make and they think that it’s a chisaron if someone doesn’t make so much money. In less materialistic societies (such as in EY), people don’t place value judgments on others based on how much they earn, so it is less likely to be considered personal.September 12, 2016 12:52 am at 12:52 am #1178732
Knowing other people’s salaries could lead to loshon harah.September 12, 2016 1:27 am at 1:27 am #1178733
Some people as an employee don’t want to share their information of pay lestctgey get fired cause their friend used them to ask for a raise to get same or more pay then her.
As an employer myself. I make sure no employees get more pay even if working longer in the company. Lest my entire company go on strike all cause I have ONE worker a raiseSeptember 12, 2016 2:42 am at 2:42 am #1178734
The salaries of public employees are generally part of the public record.September 12, 2016 2:56 am at 2:56 am #1178735
Where I work your salary is considered proprietary information and is not allowed to be shared with other employees. Failure to comply with this policy according to company handbook is subject to disciplinary action including termination. Employers do not want employees sharing compensation under any circumstances.September 12, 2016 3:11 am at 3:11 am #1178736
Employers don’t have control over employees personal lives after hours when they are socializing with other employees off the employers premises. What is discussed between two people, who happen to work in the same company, while they are offsite is proprietary to those two folks and they have no need to inform their employer (who they are not on the clock for at the time) what they discussed between two private parties. Obviously they’ll want to be circumspect in any conversation they have with their employer not to make known they shared that information off hours.September 12, 2016 4:00 am at 4:00 am #1178737
a pushayid & Joseph
as much as in your company policy of no discussing pay with other employees including after work hours. if they do discuss & find out each others pay & one of them claim for raise etc… there will still be no way to prove that they revealed paycheck amounts to each other to fire the employeeSeptember 12, 2016 12:25 pm at 12:25 pm #1178738
MA. Proof is a different story. I can theoretically rob a bank and get away with it too.
Joseph. Confidential information is not limited to office hours. Employees entrusted with confidential information are expected even out of the office to maintain discretion. Ones compensation package is considered confidential in many companies. Like it or not.September 12, 2016 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1178739
You need to be careful. I had a friend who recently mentioned to her coworker how she felt underpaid, and her coworker managed to extract all the details about her salary than receded to go to her boss demanding that she get paid like my friend….September 12, 2016 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1178740
“You need to be careful. I had a friend who recently mentioned to her coworker how she felt underpaid, and her coworker managed to extract all the details about her salary than receded to go to her boss demanding that she get paid like my friend….”
A boss should know how to deal with situations like that. If an employee feels he/she deserves a raise, he/she should have a more legitimate reason than “he gets paid more than me.” An employer has no obligation to pay all of his employees equally, even if they have similar qualifications.September 12, 2016 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #1178741
I always assumed that there could be halachic problems with sharing financial information that could end up hurting someone. I know when I was looking into the possibility of renting a particular apartment and I asked the previous renter how much she had paid, she didn’t want to tell me, because she thought it could be problematic halachically since I might then go to the landlord and say, “I know your previous tenant only paid $x so can you give me the same deal?” I also always tried to be careful not to tell people how much rent I was paying for the same reason (in case I left and someone else wanted to rent who had heard what I was paying and wanted to be able to pay the same amount).
I have no idea if there is such a halacha – I just always assumed that according to halacha, you should not give over information that might hurt someone else.September 12, 2016 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #1178742
Meno: the issue was more about talking to coworkers. My friend trusted her coworker and considered her a friend. She did not think she would repeat word by word exactly everything she said to their boss, including other priavte thoughts and details that were unrelated to her paycheck.
She trusted her coworker, the message is that when it comes to parnassah people can do crazy things, take caution even around those who you consider your friends.September 12, 2016 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1178743
lilmod, why don’t you look at it that you’re helping the person get a higher salary or lower rent?September 12, 2016 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1178744
1: You are NOT helping them get anything. Private sectors jobs are not union jobs where everyone starts at the same level, gets the same raise and has the same benefits. If an employee feels they deserve a raise, they should present an argument based on their own merits, not because thats what someone else is making. There could be any number of valid reasons why one person makes more than another including when they were hired (were they replacing someone who was making even more? Were they hired at a time when the company was able to afford to give higher salaries? did they come into the company with more experience? in a smaller company, was the other person hired at that salary as a favor to their uncle joe? these are just a few reasons why 2 employees who perform the same function might have different salaries)
2: You are creating resentment directed towards you from your manager/boss. For starters, you show that you cant exercise proper judgement by sharing what the company considers private information. How will they feel about sharing other company info with you?September 12, 2016 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1178745
Joseph – lol, I had a feeling someone would say that. I was just wondering who it would be. It could be, but the question is if halachically it’s information I can give over since it can harm someone. It might fall in the category of private information that I’m not supposed to be revealing. In my case, I was particularly concerned because they had specifically given me a special deal (not what they initially advertised) for specific reasons.
I also wonder if halachically it would make a difference if we are talking about a situation where I know I am moving out and I am talking to a friend who wants to move in and I want to help her out (and the landlords would realize that I would be likely to give over this information) versus a case where I have no immediate plans to move and/or I am not talking to a friend who wants to move in and I am stam spreading this information that my landlord might consider to be confidential information (which is the case I was talking about).September 12, 2016 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #1178746
apushatayid, knowing the salaries of colleagues with similar responsibilities/functions provides you with a great deal of negotiating information and leverage compared to being in the dark about that information. No doubt about that.
Companies have been known to pay a subordinate more than his supervisor due to different salary negotiating skills between them.September 12, 2016 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1178747
Having interviewed and hired people I can assure you that nothing is further than the truth. If you work in a small mom and pop company that simply cant get along without you, you will likely get your raise in the short term. Before the 1st paycheck with the higher salary arrives, I assure you, your replacement is being recruited. In a larger corporation, you can forget your negotiating skills unless you are a top sale rep, top grossing lawyer or accountant who has financial leverage over the company because you can take your book of business elsewhere, you are not scaring anyone. At best you wont get your raise, at worst you will tick off enough people that they will find some pretext to get rid of you and worse the one who shared information they should not have, with you. Im sure you will scream “there are laws” about unlawful firing, well guess what, employment in the USA is what is called “at will”, the same way you can you can give 2 weeks whenever you want to, so can your employer. Dont give them a reason to do so.
Please name a single company that has paid anyone more than their manager because they had better negotiating skills. It is more likely that they know the subordinate is more valuable to the company in the long run, and will almost certainly become the supervisor and prefer to “invest” in that employee.September 12, 2016 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #1178748
apy, that’s rubbish. Negotiating skills in salary negotiations is vital. And having more information gives you more leverage. Companies will try to pay the least they can while hiring/retaining you.
It is well known companies very often insist on knowing your previous salary since they don’t want to pay you too much more than your last employer. Even if they would have been willing to pay someone with your skill set and experience much more than your previous employer had. Knowing what you are/were paid, they will lower their offer to something not too much above despite their coming in willing to have paid more prior to knowing your last salary.September 13, 2016 12:51 am at 12:51 am #1178749
What you COULD do andcwgat you SHOULD do are 2 different things. If you believe approaching your boss and negotiating a raise based on the salary of a coworker is a good idea then go for it. I would advise putting your negotiating skills to to work with an argument based on your accomplishments and value to the boss. Thats also the basis for nehotiating a salary for a new job. Not the salary of a coworker.September 13, 2016 12:57 am at 12:57 am #1178750
Companies will pay whatever they have to to hire and retain good employees. Salaries operate along supply and demand principles. In some economies and industries it is a buyer’s market and salaries are lower. In other economies and industries the reverse is true.September 13, 2016 1:00 am at 1:00 am #1178751
And I’m still waiting for examples of those negotiators wbo make more than supervisors.September 13, 2016 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1178752
In the back office at JP Morgan Chase.September 13, 2016 1:47 am at 1:47 am #1178753
Joe, I’m still waiting to find out what your point was.September 13, 2016 2:00 am at 2:00 am #1178754
I posted a response but it wasn’t approved and the thread was zipped.September 13, 2016 2:59 am at 2:59 am #1178755
I saw the response before it was deleted. But I didn’t think that was your point. I thought you were making a point about gender. You had asked me which gender I would save first and why. This was somehow supposed to be connected to the original discussion about who opens the door for who. At least I assumed it was supposed to be connected somehow.September 13, 2016 2:59 am at 2:59 am #1178756
unless there was another response that I missed. I saw the one about darchei shalom.
No, that was it.September 13, 2016 3:13 am at 3:13 am #1178757
thanks Mods.September 13, 2016 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1178758
the back room deals at chase have nothing to do with negotiating skills and everything to do with being part of a club. it is about who you know, not what you know or how you perform. if you think walking into the back room at chase whining how it isnt fair your collegue makes more than you is going to get you a raise, go for it. I wish you much hatzlacha.September 13, 2016 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1178759
I tell all my colleagues I’m making way more than them.
First, it makes them all think I’m like their boss.
Second, some of them go and negotiate more money, and that changes the baseline for how the company thinks of compensation, and then I ask for more.September 13, 2016 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1178760
Or, they identify the troublemaker in the ranks and tell them to make sure the door doesnt hit them in the tuches on the way out.September 13, 2016 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #1178761
“First, it makes them all think I’m like their boss.
Second, some of them go and negotiate more money, and that changes the baseline for how the company thinks of compensation, and then I ask for more.”
Third, word eventually gets back to the actual boss that you lied about your compensation in order to change the baseline, and you get fired.
It’s like the circle of life.September 13, 2016 3:41 pm at 3:41 pm #1178762
Third, word eventually gets back to the actual boss that you lied about your compensation in order to change the baseline, and you get fired.
the boss also wants the baseline salary to go up, because that gives him leverage to HIS boss to negotiate his own salary.
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