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So there’s this story that I once heard. If I recall correctly, it was about either the Chofetz Chaim or R’ Chaim Brisker. (My memory leans more towards the Chofetz Chaim but the content leans more towards R’ Chaim.) Anyway, our protagonist – whoever it was – once woke up late. His father rebuked him, to which he responded that it’s not his fault since the Yetzer Hara kept him asleep. The father rejected this excuse, claiming that if the Yetzer Hara was able to wake up on time (to do his job of trying to mess over our protagonist) then the young boy should be able to wake up on time as well. Our protagonist responded that that’s not a fair comparison because he has a Yetzer Hara trying to prevent him from waking up whereas the Yetzer Hara does not have a Yetzer Hara trying to prevent him from doing his job.
Many commentators (e.g. the Seforno) claim that the primordial serpent, the ??? in the Garden of Eden was none other than the Yetzer Hara.
The Midrash in Bereishis Rabba 18:6 tells us:
???? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ??
Clearly, then, the Yetzer Hara has a Yetzer Hara.
In Yeshiva we called this a kasha oif ah maaisa.
The Chofetz Chaim was orphaned before his Bar Mitzvah. And before Bar Mitzvah he could have simply quoted the Alshich.
Or is that a reason to say it’s more likely to have happened before Bar Mitzvah?
Many commentators (e.g. the Seforno) claim that the primordial serpent, the ??? in the Garden of Eden was none other than the Yetzer Hara.
i thought that was going after sm (name of the malach) went into the nachash
basically before he had sm he was a normal snake with tayvas but when he let it consume him he allowed sm to enter him whereby he became part and parcel of the yetzer hara
(if something isn’t clear please ask, im on my phone)
It is common to replace the names in stories. This is sometimes due to inaccurate memories. It also happens sometimes when a chassidishe maaseh is being used by the yeshivishe oilem, and choose to use a character from the non-chassidishe communities. This story is told as occurring by Reb Laizer Dzikover, son of Reb Naftoli of Ropschitz. Minor details are different.
“Folk stories” have a life of their own, sometimes existing over many centuries. The names get filled in as relevant to each telling. They aren’t historic documents. I suspect on further research you’ll find versions of the story going very far back.
To use an American example, the folk story of George Washington and the cherry tree is clearly impossible, yet it is a valid folk story on the importance of honesty. That it is historically impossible doesn’t detract from it.
paa,
care to elaborate
but what part wasn’t clear so i could know what to elaborate?
was it my WHOLE post?
PAA, Am I missing something here? (oh yeah, boy am I missing..)
Where did it state that the Yetzer Hara has a Yetzer Hara PREVENTING him from doing his job???
and akuperma – that story happens to be true. I heard a recording of the conversation between him and his father (him and Shnooky too)
Maybe it’s a matter of *Names have been changed.
And maybe the Yetzer Hara has a Yetzer Hatov preventing him from doing his job.
the way I heard the story is that the chofetz chaim himself had a hergesh to stay in bed one day for after all, he was an old man and could use his sleep and he replied to the yetzer hara, you are way older than me and up bright and early doing your job, so is no excuse for me. either way, nice story. nice lesson. doesnt change the 1st line in shulchan aruch or how to apply it to ones every day life.
paa,
you stated “Many commentators (e.g. the Seforno) claim that the primordial serpent, the ??? in the Garden of Eden was none other than the Yetzer Hara.”
that only happened after “The Midrash in Bereishis Rabba 18:6 tells us:
“???? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ??
because he let it consume him
there is a midrash that says that sm was riding on the nachash’s back
clearer now?
The protagonist in the story wasn’t saying that the Yetzer Hara has a Yetzer Hara for some things but not for others.
That’s silly. A Yetzer Hara is what prevents one from doing his job. When he got his Taava, that was his job.
None of the famous stories are true. What do you think the popa’s of the chofetz chaim’s generation used to do for kicks?
Troll through the mail? (Kinda difficult to post that way.)
paa,
i don’t get what the seforno is saying so much, ill have to look it up myself
where is it?
“I am merely proving that the Yetzer Hara does have a Yetzer Hara as evidenced from the fact that he desired Chava.”
Adam (presumably) desired Chava,
and he did not have a yetzer hara.
Animals desire other animals,
and they (I assume) don’t have a yetzer hara.
That drive is often referred to as “the yetzer,” as in the
phrase “m’gareh hayetzer,” but does that make it synonymous
with “the yetzer hara?”
(How does that Gemara about the destruction of the desire
for avoda zara go? Are there multiple “yetzer hara”s?)
comlink-x
min b’eino mino isn’t normal therefore it has to be the yetzer hara
PAA – the yetzer hara doesn’t have a yetzer hara! You’re mistaken.
Though mean the one about ??? ???? ??? ??????
By the way, Sefer Chasidim says openly that animals have a Yetzer Hara.
Comlink, before the Yetzer Hara became internalized, his desire was like that off Yakov Avinu.
Which is what?
Animals desire other animals,
and they (I assume) don’t have a yetzer hara.
didnt chava give the fruit to the animals too?
additionally, why would the animals get destroyed during the mabul?
Because they were dinosaurs.
sorry rebyidd,
there were sets from each animal on the teivah, and the rest from that species died (ie 2 tigers while the rest died)
They were dinosaurs at heart.
They were messed up through the sins of man. They have a Yetzer Hara in terms of desires but not in terms of Bechira. Their Yetzer is not checked by mind but rather through outside circumstance.
Comlink, like Rashi describes it, in Vayetzei.
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