June 1, 2020 9:52 am at 9:52 am #1866385Yitz1826Participant
whats it like to be Jewish and divorced?June 1, 2020 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1866416
Single and lonely.June 1, 2020 10:28 am at 10:28 am #1866420Someone in MonseyParticipant
It most likely depends on the circumstances – for some it can be a relief, for others a hardship.June 1, 2020 11:50 am at 11:50 am #1866459
The experience varies per situation. Women and men experience it differently, as well. No one thinks it’s pleasant. It is only expected to be the lesser of the evils.June 1, 2020 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1866540
TLIK: Can you please explain how men and women experience it differently?June 1, 2020 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #1866606funnyboneParticipant
What makes you ask? Are you Jewish? Are you divorced? Then you know! If not, then who cares?June 1, 2020 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1866608
Obviously this is anecdotal, and not scientific data.
Women seeking to leave a marriage look at the relationship as a trap. The divorce is freeing them, and they experience it as newfound independence. They may feel lonely afterward, and they may have varying degrees of comfort in their new arrangement (with issues of new family structure, children care and support, finances, social roles, changing of other relationships, etc.) And many continue the haggling through courts afterward.
Men view their marriage experience that ended in divorce as a failure, and this affects their self esteem. Their loneliness is more often profound, and they seek other means of compensating for this. They tend to seek remarriage sooner than the women, and for many these efforts are premature. The zivug sheini scene has known challenges, and it is common that divorced men jump into that arena too soon.
From the experiences of others, the lonely Shabbos meals are difficult. Men tend to get invitations more quickly than women, and at least more often get them spontaneously. Women seek them, and may get them less often because they would need to come with their children.
I shared here some observations as generalizations. I am sure anyone here would be able to share an experience that differs. It is not scientific data. This may vary by location and community. Please do not jump on generalizations. Simply reporting what I observed.June 2, 2020 12:34 am at 12:34 am #1866752☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Men tend to get invitations more quickly than women, and at least more often get them spontaneously.
That makes sense, as they may get a Friday night invitation in shul.
For some reason though, my experience does differ; I think we have divorced women for Shabbos seudos more often than divorced men, frequently with their children.
It saddens me that recently many of these single people (men, women, divorced, widowed, never married – it makes no difference) have not been able to get invitations due to social distancing.June 2, 2020 1:50 am at 1:50 am #1866756Doreish HaEmesParticipant
Its definitely not recommended! It’s also not an ‘option’ the only reason to get divorced is if there is no other option, so shouldn’t make a difference what it’s like!June 2, 2020 9:19 am at 9:19 am #1866793takahmamashParticipant
“Its definitely not recommended!”
Seriously? You don’t want to add in anything about the cases where divorce IS recommended? Divorce is better than a husband beating a wife isn’t it? Divorce is better than a husband abusing his kids, isn’t it?
Are you living in la-la land?June 2, 2020 9:24 am at 9:24 am #1866839
TakahM: How does divorce help if one of the spouses is beating the kids? It doesn’t. The divorce is between the spouses; both spouses remain parents of their children after divorce. Neither of them are divorced from their children.June 2, 2020 10:29 am at 10:29 am #1866851n0mesorahParticipant
Well it depends which spouse you perceive as the problem. The spouse that beats the kids, or the one that does not?June 2, 2020 12:26 pm at 12:26 pm #1866909MilhouseParticipant
There are obviously exceptional cases where divorce is recommended, and there are even tragic cases where it’s REQUIRED even if neither party wants it (e.g. when a kohen’s wife was forced into an aveira). Every case is different, but when speaking of the topic in general one is speaking of the normal case, and in the normal case divorce is not recommended; it must be a last resort.
But unfortunately while the Torah says it’s up to each spouse, and divorce is usually only possible if both consent, the reality is that secular law gives people (usually wives) the ability to leave their spouses without any penalty, and then the rabbonim say that since s/he’s not coming back anyway you should give/accept a get even if you don’t really have to, because what’s the point of refusing? And by that point they’re usually right, because even if s/he came back it probably would never again be a good marriage.
(The statistics are pretty clear in the secular world that it’s much more common for women to break up marriages than for men to do so; I don’t know of any similar statistics for the frum world, so I can only go on a tentative presumption that the same thing is true there too, but I don’t know.)June 2, 2020 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1867102Doreish HaEmesParticipant
Obviously I didn’t mean it’s never recommended! Just that if someone is deliberating (which vibes emanating from the OP suggest) then it’s not recommended. It’s something that needs to done under certain circumstances.
I’m gonna get flack for this (good thing there’s social distancing so you can’t punch me in the face!). Not to judge any case specifically but these days with so many marriages ending in divorce it’s hard to believe that in every case divorce was the only option (leaving out cases where one party was either abusive or mentally unstable). Before anyone gets married they must understand marriage is about giving, it’s not about you. You can’t change someone else, only yourself. This all takes work, it’s not supposed to be easy. Secondly when two people get together they are two individuals, so there are different opinions, wants and likes, if small differences are not worked out and discussed they become bigger problems which create situations that lead to divorce.June 2, 2020 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1867127
Hagaon HaRav Avigdor Miller zt’l said that over 95% of divorced that occurred in the frum community were unnecessary and should not have happened.June 2, 2020 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #1867180
I ask the commenters here to reflect on their own experiences, those of their families, and others they know about. How many of the marrying chassanim and kallahs entered the relationship with the proper tools? Obviously, most marriages last, so I guess many figure it out. But do all have positive role models of marriage? Do they receive the guidance throughout their childhood, including their own growth and maturation as well as their chinuch in our yeshivos and bais yaakovs to exercise the midos tovos needed to tolerate the colossal change from singlehood to married life? Did the chosson and kallah teachers address the subjects of communication, problem solving, dealing with anger, and how to manage their social lives in successful ways?
Way too often, marriages deteriorate because they began on shaky footage, and were not given the proper attention. There are many generalizations we can make here. Some have merit, others are just silly. Yes, there are marriages that result in divorce as the lesser of the evils. Use of statistics might be interesting, but has zero relevance to any particular case. It is sad that parting spouses are upset, and are apt to channel their emotions into negative energy, keeping batei din and courts busy. Lawyers and toanim make a fortune off this, and some rabbonim consider them part of the problem.
All too often, the divorce doesn’t end upon the court or beis din concluding their respective procedures. The fighting and bickering continues and lingers, and the parties limit their original plan to move on with their lives. This is tragic for all involved (except the lawyers and toanim), and shamefully expensive.
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