January 13, 2011 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #594185memoMember
Why are so many people getting divorced?January 13, 2011 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #728514deiyezoogerMember
because they think the second time around will be better than the first one (not that the first was bad….)January 13, 2011 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #728515
Because they are spoiled by modern society and influenced by it.January 13, 2011 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #728517hudiParticipant
1) They are getting married for the wrong reasons
2) They are getting married too soon
3) They are not mature enough to give inJanuary 13, 2011 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #728518artchillParticipant
* Some because one spouse is abusive.
** Some because one spouse was abused growing up and can’t establish a relationship.
*** Some because one spouse’s family is abusive and the spouse can’t put their foot down to stop it.
**** Some because one spouse rushed right into marriage because they were scared to be a Shidduch Crisis statistic, and instead became a divorce statistic.
***** Some because of a breakdown in communication and the refusal to learn how to communicate effectively.
Sounds like a “This Little Piggie” rhyme!!January 13, 2011 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #728520yaakov doeParticipant
As a divorced man I think that part of the reason is that there is less stigma attached to divorce than there was in previous generations. Of course there some divorces are necessary because of abuse or mental illness, but too many of the younger generation are taking divorce to casually and not taking marriage as seriously as they should.
I don’t think my ex solved her problems by divorce, but I at least got a better wife the 2nd time. Divorce definitly impacted our children and grand children.
Those contemplating divorce should give reconcilliation very serious thought. Divorce is a nightmare for all except the lawyers.January 13, 2011 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #728521s2021Member
someone smart said a problem thats leading to divorces is people dont really know who they r at 19-22.. and never get a chance to figure themselves out..and get themselves involved in the biggest decision of their lives without proper/professional help/guidance. and if the person has real problems no one knows about it till real damage is done… n its a lil too late in the game to find out..January 13, 2011 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #728522smartcookieMember
Yakov Doe- exactly!
While there are many case where divorce is absolutely necessary, couple get into marriage today thinking that if it doesn’t work, I try again.
This shouldn’t be an option. Boys and girls must know that this is it. You can’t just divorce like that. You have to work very hard and try EVERYTHING possible to work it out.
If after all that it didn’t work, then divorce is an option.January 13, 2011 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #728523nfgo3Member
The free-market answer (and punchline of an old joke) is: Because it’s worth it. Bahdumpbump.January 13, 2011 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #728524truth be toldMember
Many reasons, which i believe always has selfishness at its core. Especially when kids are involved.
Know of a case where the girls mom was all mad that her daughter was “taken away” from her. She did everything to destroy the marriage. Her daughter wasnt strong or willing enough to deal with it or even see a marriage counselor. They eventually got divorced. The guy showed me two years of his cell phone bills of how his wife was on the phone to her mother EVERY night for over an hour with no phone call beginning before 10 30 PM….January 13, 2011 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #728525oomisParticipant
The number 1 reason for divorce is – marriage.
OK, this is really not a funny topic. I think that people get married for the wrong reasons nowadays, they are not realistic about what marriage entails, and they have seminary stars in their eyes. when reality sets in, they realize that a) they really do NOT know each other very well, and the people who said they would learn to love each other AFTER marriage might not always be right and b) doing a superb job of supporting one’s husband in kollel while simultaneously raising a family is something only a very few women are really cut out to do, no matter WHAT your Morah told you and c) marriage takes the work and commitment of BOTH parties, no one can be married alone. This eye-opening experience can have a negative effect on otherwise nice people, and they realize they married for the wrong reasons at the wrong time. Societal pressures on the religious girls, sometimes push them into early marriages before they are ready. Some guys are pushed to get married, when they are inexperienced in how to take charge of their own lives. Being in the Beis Medrash all day can be very insular for many, and it is a shock to the system when they discover, Yes, Virginia, there IS a household budget.January 14, 2011 12:27 am at 12:27 am #728526maynishMember
smartcookie:u are so _ _ _ _right!!!!
i know people who got divorced after 4 months.. BEC OF PERSONALITY ISSURES>
but i wont put passed me that the world out there is crazy and corrupted. so when you fill your eyes with all those movies and celebs , then u expect the movies from your spouse and THAT AINT HAPPENING>>> THATS WHY THEY R CALLED MOVIES>>>!!!!
another think is ppl only know how to comunicate by text bbm facbook twitter….. if someone has a problem they say>>>”ill text it to you” be straight up and say it . NO MORE COMMUNCATION SKILLS>>>>January 14, 2011 12:28 am at 12:28 am #728527memoMember
I know I hear of all these broken engagements and divorces…B”H there out there b/c unfortunately is a need for them….
but some people should consider working it out if possible–if it’s not serious like abuse or s/t like thatJanuary 14, 2011 12:36 am at 12:36 am #728528
oomis1105: So why then, if your “b” reasoning regarding kollel/seminary has any accuracy, is the divorce rate of kollel yungerleit lower than other frum demographics? Your argument would only lend itself if you could demonstrate they have a higher rate.January 14, 2011 12:39 am at 12:39 am #728529ronrsrMember
is this the Post-Shidduch crisis?January 14, 2011 1:09 am at 1:09 am #728530HealthParticipant
As a divorcee, I agree with Gabboim, artchill (except #4), cleverjewishpun, yaakov doe, oomis and mostly with truth be told as possible reasons. The others sound like yentishkeit without logic or sense in reality.January 14, 2011 1:52 am at 1:52 am #728531popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Popa does not know why, but thinks it is a positive development.
Divorce is better than a bad marriage. Until now, divorce was such taboo that probably many people stayed in miserable marriages that they should have left.
Also, the option of divorce is what makes working on your marriage possible. G-d created divorce for a reason. I think part of that reason is that people feel more able to deal with things when they do so willingly rather than being forced to.January 14, 2011 2:06 am at 2:06 am #728532zaidy78Participant
Part of the “Divorce Crisis” is ironically the “Shidduch Crisis”. Young girls are so desperate to get a date, that when they finally do, in their mind they are practacally engaged, without ever giving serious thought as to maybe this is not THE ONE! I don’t want to be the 25% of my class who will never get married! There is so much pressure on the girls these days, that just get married and later will try to make things work.
The truth of the matter is that EVERY marriage has it bumps. Two people, from two different families, from two different backgrounds come together and in a relitevely short amount of time they decide that they belong together forever. They discussed all the big issues and everything clicks. So what could go wrong? Everything! While both boy and girls have a desire to have a guests on Shabbos, one has in mind bachurim, and one has in mind couples. One is used to fish with alot of chrain served in the middle and one has a little mayinaise on each plate… One has a yekishe mother and one has a galitziyaner mother… Unless both sides are constantly working on themselves not to be bothered by the other’s mishugasin things will HOPEFULLY work out ok.
And stop making the Shidduch Crisis the topic of every day, it only puts pressure on everyone for no good reason!January 14, 2011 5:50 am at 5:50 am #728533
Ohel just put out an ad re: this matter.
You’d think they’d know better.
It could have said:Divorce is not for everyone,NOT made it sound like it’s for no one.
The question the OP asks is similar to asking,”Why do so many people…get fat?/have “special children”?/have teens-at-risk?/lose their jobs? etc.etc.
THE ANSWER IS:THERE ARE MANY,MANY REASONS.January 14, 2011 6:36 am at 6:36 am #728534
Oomis:Your comment shows a basic lck of knowledge of the divorce scene.
The Divorce rate among those who are more modern is astronmically higher then the more yeshivish cercles.
That sid it is undeniable that Yes, the trend among the Orthodox Jewish World is drifting towardss the non-jewish world where there is a Divorce rate of over 50%.
This poster for one does not know why people would be surprised.
We Have been subtely told that the Torah is “outdated” and that only those trained by non-jewish sources are “proffessional” and capable of dealing with these matters.
Well when those dealing with certain issues in our communities are the same as those of the wider population, is it ny surprise that slowly the results are mirroring those of the wider population?January 14, 2011 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #728535gavra_at_workParticipant
Agree with Hudi, which basicly covers what many of you are saying.
Also add too young.January 14, 2011 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #728536SJSinNYCMember
Ben Levi, are there any statistics on rates of divorce in the frum community broken down by affiliation?
From my anecdotal evidence (and I realize its anedctodal), the divorce rate seems to be the same.
However, on a poll of women, money is the number one argument/problem in marriage.January 14, 2011 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #728537Brooklyn YentaParticipant
people, as someone who’s been there, i can tell you that people generally don’t get divorced for no good reason. as much as it has become more common, there is still a definite stigma attached to a divorcee. no one in their right mind would put themselves into that category without rethinking it thousands of times to make sure that it’s the right decision. if there are kids involved, it complicates matters that much more, and everyone knows that. believe me, no one thinks divorce is fun. and once you start the process you see how dirty it really is. if someone takes that step, usually there’s a VERY good reason.January 14, 2011 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #728538BowwowParticipant
I don’t understand your comment that we are being told the Torah is outdated? Didn’t the Torah provide for divorce by giving us Hilchos Gittin? Yes, it should be rare and not taken lightly, but it is not contrary to the Torah. Years ago children with learning dissabilities or Autism were just “slow”, but B’H we have made inroads where we can properly help these children and there is less of a stigma involved. Is divorce perfect? No, and it should be a last resort. However, if the situation warrants it should be done. Perhaps we as a people are beginning to realize that not every circumstance that used to be looked down upon shouldn’t be and we are more readily acceptable of those who are subjected to it.January 14, 2011 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #728539
The satistics on the matter are hard to really rely on and vary wildly ( there are estimates placing the Divorce rate as high as 30 percent and 50 percent among certain age groups in certain communities).
Most of the info I rely on comes from anecdotal evidence as well as conversations with Rabbonim involved in Sholom Bayis and a writer for a major Jewish Publication who was tasked with investigating the matter.January 14, 2011 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #728540Divorced_GuyMember
Brooklyn Yenta – would you be open to sharing your approximate age. I am wondering whether your comments on every divorce being based on a very good reason and your earlier comments about the hefker behavior of your female divorced friends is because they are in a certain age bracket. I.e., are younger people more mushpa by secular society and more likely to get divorced and more likely to lead a hefker life?January 14, 2011 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #728541mddMember
Smartcookie,Gaboim and others, I am not for divorces, but to put things into a Torah perspective: Beis Hillel held that one is allowed to divorce one’s wife, if she burnt his food. Rabbi Akiva ( whom we don’t pasken like) held that even if he found a different candidate who is prettier than his wife, he is allowed to divorce her.January 14, 2011 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #728542s2021Member
whoa whoa whoa where did THAT come from??January 14, 2011 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #728543
Bowwow: You seem to have misinterpeted my statements.
Of course Divorce is and should always be looked at as legitimate and sometimes needed. As you said quite accuratley the Torah allows for it and in some cases requires it.
That said the Gemorah also says that over every Divorce the Mizbaiach sheds tears.
Perhaps if people would be more cognizant of the possibilty of Divorce and the terrible ramifications that go along with it, as well as the fact that their actions as a spouse can and sometimes do lead to this heartbreaking result then they would be more careful in their actions beforehand and thereby eliminating the need for this option.January 14, 2011 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #728544SJSinNYCMember
OK Ben Levi, so basically neither of us has any sort of real information.January 14, 2011 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #728545mddMember
Not over every divorce does the mizbeach sheds tears — only zivug rishon (Gittin 90B).January 14, 2011 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #728546agittayidParticipant
A few years ago a prominent frum lawyer specializing in divorces appeared on one of the Jewish talk shows in the evening. A caller asked if the changing roles of husband and wife (wife is the major breadwinner in the family while husband learns) could be contributing to the rising divorce rate. Her answer, “It’s not working out.”January 14, 2011 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #728547
agittayid: I completely agree. The masculinization of women being pressed into society by the feminists, and unfortunately affecting even some frum folks, is a leading cause of this.January 15, 2011 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #728549PosterMember
I do not believe that pple get divorced bec they are lazy to work things out. No one wants to be divorced. I do believe – YOU NEVER EVER KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS! Period. You will never really know the reason your neighbor, cousin, friend got divorced. Therefore, you can never judge.January 16, 2011 1:47 am at 1:47 am #728550lesschumrasParticipant
Gabboim and Health,
Can you cite the source of your divorce statistics?
Thank youJanuary 16, 2011 2:18 am at 2:18 am #728551mewhoParticipant
too many are marrying coz their friends got married. peer pressure. then they expect everything to be roses and when its not, they jump shipJanuary 16, 2011 2:24 am at 2:24 am #728552
Mee La My Post Aylai!January 16, 2011 2:29 am at 2:29 am #728553yankdownunderMember
What are solutions to change this unfortunate situation?January 16, 2011 2:38 am at 2:38 am #728554oomisParticipant
Ben Levi and Gabboim, you are both making statements that are questionable. I personally am acquainted with TOO many yeshivah/kollel couples who either broke up after less than six months of marriage, or became pregnant and are waiting for the baby to be born before taking the final step. That is especially sad, because now another life will be involved.
You are closing your eyes to the truth, if you believe what you posted, because it is much nicer to believe what you said, than to recognize that two people who barely know each other, do not know what they are in for when they get married too quickly, and with a false sense of what marriage will be like (especially for the kollel wife, who is made to believe that her life will be perfect as a true Eishes Chayil). Yes, there are many who do manage to live the life happily, but make no mistake – there are many who do NOT.
I know couples who are NOT divorcing, but the wives are totally disenchanted with the kollel life, primarily because their husbands are never around when they are needed. Many of them had babies within the first year, and if they do not live near either set of parents, they are struggling on their own with babysitters, working full time both to support the family AND pay the babysitter, coming home exhausted to an infant who needs attention, AND having to prepare dinner for their husbands, who waltz in from Yeshivah, MAYBE play with the baby for a few minutes, eat dinner with them, and go back for night seder. This was not the idea many of those girls had in mind when they were talked into the beauty of kollel life. It is a miracle that many of them continue to accept this, and I applaud them for their strength, but make no mistake, there are many young women who are NOT accepting this and feel betrayed by their seminary teachers, their married friends who were not candid with them, and the social pressure that was put on them to begin with, to get married without thinking things through first and having a plan.
You may disagree with me all you like, and maybe ion your circle of friends you do not see this, but statistically, you are mistaken. The divorce rate has risen among ALL frum people, including the yungerleit.
“The masculinization of women being pressed into society by the feminists, and unfortunately affecting even some frum folks, is a leading cause of this.” (Gabboim)
Yep, and it is not the fault of the “feminists,” but rather a society of frum men who do not want to understand that it is THEIR job to provide for their families, not their wives’ responsibility. We have forced women into this role, and not only made it mandatory, but LAUDITORY. When did it become insignificant and shameful almost, for a woman to raise her children?January 16, 2011 2:46 am at 2:46 am #728555
4.trying your best
…AND SOMETIMES IT WAS SIMPLY MEANT TO HAPPEN TO ENABLE ONE’S PERSONAL TIKUN.
(CAPS for emphasis,not yelling.)January 16, 2011 5:30 am at 5:30 am #728556chayav inish livisumayParticipant
because they get engaged after 3 dates because they dont want to chas v’shalom go out for longer than that because they think iots wrong. I dont know why its wrong this is the most important decision of ur life.
Somehow this system woprks very well in the chasidish world. they have 2 or 3 meetings and then they get engaged and there divorce rate is pretty low. But then again they marry their cosuins!!!!January 16, 2011 5:32 am at 5:32 am #728557chayav inish livisumayParticipant
a sad story on this topic
i know somebody that got engaged aftyer very few dates and when the guy took her to pick out a ring she said how can u expect me to make a desicion like this in such a short amount of time this is a liofe desicion. i need time to think
she thought more abt the ring than the guy:(January 16, 2011 5:52 am at 5:52 am #728558PosterMember
oomis1105, there are challenges that Kollel wives experience, but NOT that the men are less available. Men have a very set seder while they are learning. They get home the same time every day. They leave the same time every day. Whereas men that are working can come home very late depending on the season, often go on business trips, and can also be very tense and stressed out from the pressure.
I am not encouraging one over the other, just pointing out where men are more or less available.January 16, 2011 6:43 am at 6:43 am #728559Pashuteh YidMember
Women must know that they have an innate attractiveness to their husbands, and as long as they try to look nice and talk gently and supportively to him, he will love her 100 times back. However, if she ever gets into shlump mode or nag mode or whine mode, that will forever alter her husband’s view of her, and make all the magic go away. It is important for women not to mess up the gift Hashem gives to all women which is their feminine magic. Once they do, it is almost impossible to get it back. This is probably why Chazal stressed so much shelo tisganeh al baalah. They permitted many things so a woman should always be attractive to her husband.
The problem is that many women do not realize they have this gift to begin with, or take it for granted, and once they mess up it is too late.
I am not saying husbands don’t have plenty to work on themselves, but a woman must know that her primary role is serving and pleasing her husband. A man’s primary role is his learning and advancing his career and chinuch and providing for his family. If he is treated properly, he will return the favor many times over with boundless love and admiration for his wife (unless there is something seriously wrong with him).
Women also need to realize that their schoolgirl cattiness of this girl I like and this one is not good enough for me (or thing or brand or whatever) is a big turn-off for men, and men find it immature. Women must adjust to a man’s way of thinking. A good man is kind to all, regardless. He does not want to be involved with a woman’s emotional ups and downs. He wants steady seiver panim yafos, chesed and smile.January 16, 2011 7:16 am at 7:16 am #728560
Your 3rd to last sentence contradicts the last 2.January 16, 2011 7:30 am at 7:30 am #728561Brooklyn YentaParticipant
divorced guy: i’m flattered that you’re keeping tabs on what i post 🙂 age: 30’s, but i believe the behavior previously mentioned is found in the 20’s and 40’s, too.January 16, 2011 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #728563flowersParticipant
A pushita yid:
You have things backwards.
“Women must know that they have an innate attractiveness to their husbands, and as long as they try to look nice and talk gently and supportively to him, he will love her 100 times back.”
If a man will be nice and talk gently and supportive to his wife, she will love him 100 times more back.
“Women must adjust to a man’s way of thinking.”
a man must do the same for his wife.
“A good man is kind to all, regardless.”
Certainly not with such an attitude.
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