September 8, 2014 3:41 am at 3:41 am #613612
This forum is by no means meant to bring hurt or pain to anyone who is going through or went through divorce. This forum is by no means meant to be nosey. This forum is not for speculators. This forum is SOLELY for people who went through divorce or are going through divorce in order to give insight to those who are currently dating. Having gone through divorce, what are red flags to look out for? were there red flags when you were dating? Reasons for divorce (and could it have been seen before/prevented). Was it personality, hashkafa, unknown mental illness, in-laws, financial reason…..
Again, I apologize if this seems like an insensitive thread and I ask that only those who went through divorce/ knows someone personally add to this forum. No comments on other people’s responses- we’re not here to hurt or bash people’s painful nisyonos.
Thank you.September 8, 2014 6:28 am at 6:28 am #1031704
orange u gladParticipant
one thing i can say is that when looking into dating s/o who has divorced parents- make sure they are now emotionally healthy to start their own home and are not carrying the baggage from their parents bad relationship.September 8, 2014 11:54 am at 11:54 am #1031705
The little I knowParticipant
It is an ancient observation that the roots of divorce are generally found in the weakness of the bond of the marriage. This can take any of several images. Sometimes it is the poor preparation for marriage that leaves one or both of the young couple stranded without the skills to navigate the challenges. The Steipler ZT”L once noted in reference to a young man who was not managing his end of the marriage well, “What do you expect; for the past 15 years, his only relationship was with a shtender?”
Sometimes one or the other suffers from psychiatric or psychological conditions, either known and withheld or not known. This makes the building of a relationship all but impossible.
Midos tovos do not compromise an academic subject to learn in yeshiva (as in “mussar seder”, but character traits that need to be developed and nurtured. Some people have trouble with this because the nurturing is lacking, others have not had the role models to serve as inspiration.
There are couples that discover differences that are enough to doom the options for a relationship, and should redirect their lives. This sounds easy, but in today’s world it is not. The role model for divorce is set by those couples who gain media attention, as well as those who speak up a lot within the support systems of peers. They “go for the gold” with combative efforts that keep batei din and secular courts busy. They strive for the victory of destroying the other partner, and then have nothing to show for it but their own loneliness. It is truly sad.
While I completely support the “shidduch system”, it is not without its flaws, and these are easily noted and mitigated. A chosson and kallah enter the chuppah as strangers, regardless of the extent of their contact prior to the wedding. Have they been prepared to live life as themselves, as opposed to the facade they were displaying up until that point? Is enough known about the two “kids” prior to entering the shidduch? Are we appeased by the simple, non-informative information about the boy being a “good learner who has good friends” and the girl being a “baalas midos and great personality”? Perhaps we need to know more about how each of them handles stresses and challenges of life. How do they deal with anger? Do they have the capacity to be independent (emotionally, not just financially)? We can surmise the rest of the types of questions.
To whom can a couple speak if they experience difficulties? Do they address their difficulties as reasons to engage in adversarial behavior, or are they seeking resolution? Do they seek companionship and support outside the marriage? There are many questions to ask in this regard.
More to follow.September 8, 2014 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #1031706
TLIK: You’re suggestion that marriages by a person with a mental health issue is “all but impossible” is utterly wrong.September 8, 2014 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #1031707
Seems like you know a lot!!
Mods, kindly change his/her subtitle to “..is a lot!”September 8, 2014 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #1031708
Do not ever ignore signs of anger in the potential Shidduch. I made that mistake hoping it wasn’t anything serious. But it I’ll only get worse after marriage and lead possibly to abuse. Also notice inconsistencies in the personality, where you can see sometimes a very strong personality and other times a completely different (so etimes child-like) side to the contrary. People who appear stable and even have responsible jobs can be totally unstable on,y in their emotions.September 9, 2014 2:54 am at 2:54 am #1031709
One needn’t have gone through a divorce to know what red flags to look for and one who went through a divorce may not be the best expert in finding red flags.
Indeed more often than not there are no red flags visible in the short period of dating that will point to one’s personal flaws.September 9, 2014 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #1031710
And when the flaws become visible during the engagement period, do you break-off or do you just say that no person is perfect or I’m already committed? Do you listen to trusted advice telling you to not worry? As an engagement breaker, will you be able to get future dates?September 9, 2014 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #1031711
one thing i can say is that when looking into dating s/o who has divorced parents- make sure they are now emotionally healthy to start their own home
One would think this would apply to anyone, not just the child of divorced parents.
We *all* carry baggage of one form or another. Children of “intact” homes are no more immune from traumatic events than children of divorced parents.
The WolfSeptember 9, 2014 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #1031712
☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Maybe no more immune, but more likely to have experienced a traumatic event.September 10, 2014 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1031713
Wolf – you’re absolutely right! I love all these armchair quarterbacks. The main thing I had is that her Rabbi abandoned her and her Frum? friends took his place. I know why we are in Golus & it ain’t the Internet!September 11, 2014 12:31 am at 12:31 am #1031715
From personal experience, I have 2 messages to pass along. Firstly, if you know something about an individual (I’m referring to emotional type of issues like bad temper or controlling nature…) you have an achrayus to let someone know, especially when you are asked a direct question. It is not fair to say “he/she is soooo special”. Secondly, if something doesn’t “feel” right, during dating, during engagement, or even during marriage you must say something to someone. Whether it’s a parent or kallah teacher or chosson rebbe. This might be a red flag! It’s probably something that won’t go away.September 11, 2014 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1031716
NKM, if you ignore flaws during the engagement because you’re “already committed,” you ought to be committed. It’s not necessarily an engagement breaker, but it must be dealt with. I know of a situation where the girl had the sense to break her engagement to a young man who was totally inappropriate for her (IMHO). She was engaged to a wonderful young man within a year and is now happily married.
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