Do frum burial associations allow non-Shomer Shabbos or Footsteps people?

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  • #600455
    chalilavchas
    Member

    I think frum burial associations limit their plots to those who are Shomer Shabbos.

    Specifically, would they allow a Footsteps member (mockers and knockers of frumkeit) to be buried among frum people, if they have family members there, if they knew that the deceased was a member (Footsteps)?

    #825489
    chalilavchas
    Member

    Anyone had a non-Shomer Shabbos relative who wanted to be buried with Shomer Shabbos family? How does that work? Is there a problem?

    #825490
    Sam2
    Participant

    The Gemara in Sanhedrin says “Ain Kovrin Tzaddik Eitzel Rasha”. I have no idea what is done Lema’aseh.

    #825491
    ronrsr
    Member

    why would you deprive any Jew of a dignified burial with his/her family?

    #825492
    Sam2
    Participant

    If the Halacha doesn’t allow it (I said if, I don’t claim to know any Halachos about this) then that would be a good reason why.

    #825493
    mdd
    Member

    Ronsr, all this sentiments about “any Jew” are against Halocha. If a fellow is deemed to be a rasha, he is is not buried next to tzadikkim. It is a de”Oraysa to bury harugei beis din in separate cemeteries, for example.

    #825494
    gefen
    Participant

    Sam2

    Are all non-frum ppl considered Rashaim?

    #825495

    ronsr: I think the answer to your question can be found in the statement directly above it.

    #825496
    chalilavchas
    Member

    How do we define Reshaim?

    Are people who learned Torah, and subsequently became “non-believers”, and even worse, mock their frum brethren for their religious practices, considered Reshaim?

    #825497
    Sam2
    Participant

    Gefen: I have no idea. I would assume that a Tinok Shenishba isn’t called a Rasha but I have no real source to say that in this case.

    Rav Schachter extrapolates from a Gemara that it’s Assur to bury anyone next to someone even a little more or less righteous than his. He says that’s why each Shul/community has their own cemeteries. We assume that all members of each community for the most part do the same Mitzvos and the same Aveiros, so we bury them together.

    #825498
    mdd
    Member

    Chalilavchas, yes.

    Sam2, a real tinok she’nishba is not a rasha. He is like a regular frum Yid as far as ben le’chaveiro goes. Who is a real tinok she’nishba is a machlokes.

    #825499
    chalilavchas
    Member

    What about a member of a frum family, who used to be the frummest in the family until their twenties, and after befriending Goyim at work/university, became the lowest of the low and anti-frum?

    Are they allowed to be buried with family? Who decides?

    #825500
    mdd
    Member

    Depends if he does aveiros be’mezid. Also, it depends if his relatives were big tzadikim.

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