January 6, 2013 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #607716
By the goyim there is an age gap of the husband being, on average, a number of years older than the wife. Yet we hear of no gentile “shidduch crisis” with an overabundance of single girls and an underabundance of single men.
If the age gap theory holds true, why not?January 7, 2013 12:27 am at 12:27 am #918193
Because they don’t consider people not getting married a crisis.January 7, 2013 12:46 am at 12:46 am #918194
Proportionally, a lot less of them are getting married altogether.January 7, 2013 1:22 am at 1:22 am #918195
As soon as you let these females start a-schoolin’, they got them some crayzee idears in their purty lil heads that they didn’t need a man! Whaddya know!
Then on the other side, you get these 26-year old models marrying 82-year old men waiting for them to kick off so they can raise their sweet little new babies with all the cash the old guy left to them. Sheesh! No chance for a younger guy.
We’re going to wake up one day and find that we’ve all been characters in someone’s dream anyways.January 7, 2013 1:58 am at 1:58 am #918196
OOM, DHM: I understand they do not necessarily consider marriage important and do not marry proportionally as much. Nevertheless, if as many female goyim want to get married as male goyim want to get married (and the general idea in society is that females actually want to get married more than males do), the age gap should have made there be less male gentiles available, eligible and willing to get married than female gentiles available and willing.
Yet I hear no thought in any secular literature bemoaning that the age gap is causing there to be less willing males available than spouse-seeking females.January 7, 2013 2:10 am at 2:10 am #918197
A much smaller percentage of goyim get married in a legal sense. They just “hook up” or live together without benefit of matrimony and there’s no stigma to out of wedlock chikdren.
In this area of life there is no comparison to Yiddin possible.January 7, 2013 2:13 am at 2:13 am #918198
In most western countries, middle-class men typically do not marry until they are able to support a family, whereas women married when they were able to start raising a family, leading to a substantial age gap, since men traditionally had to complete things such as apprenticeships, college, building a career, fighting wars – before they go married.
Of course, disreputable teenagers always were, well, you know (we can’t discuss it here) -and they were disreputable with people their own age.
Increasing, women have been delaying marriage in order to enter careers, leading to many women being upset once they hear their “biological clock ticking.”
In all fairness, women seem to be emotionally ready for parenting a lot soon than men.
I suspect the norm in the frum community will gradually be for men to marry in their late 20s or early 30s, and women to marry in their mid 20s. Remember that unless they are “1%” types, women as well as men need time to finish college and have a career so they can support a family in a middle class manner (including paying tuition).January 7, 2013 2:18 am at 2:18 am #918199
The Goyim don’t have a age gap.January 7, 2013 2:22 am at 2:22 am #918200
when each person gets married 3 or 4 times there is plenty of people to go aroundJanuary 7, 2013 3:25 am at 3:25 am #918201
Is that a serious question? Firstly because they don’t think they will die alone if not married by 19 and the guys have jobs and therefore don’t only go out with the girls who come from money and if not will wait for the girls from next years classJanuary 7, 2013 4:16 am at 4:16 am #918203
They don’t have the population growth that we have.January 7, 2013 5:25 am at 5:25 am #918204
Goyim live by Hashem’s natural laws. They have no shidduch crisis in the same way that wild animals don’t. Yidden are metzuveh to different laws.January 7, 2013 6:21 am at 6:21 am #918205
“the guys have jobs and therefore don’t only go out with the girls who come from money.”
What does that have to do with an age gap?January 7, 2013 8:08 am at 8:08 am #918206
the goyim dont call to find out if the mother uses a plastic over her tablecloth or if the guy has a haircut with a ”chup”
they dont call to see if the guy wants to be a learner or earner…in their world the idea is to go to work to provide for the family. they would not be impressed with a guy sitting in school to learn their bible. etcJanuary 7, 2013 11:07 am at 11:07 am #918207
We do not appreciate how fortunate we are.
Excepting China, India and the Middle East where female infanticide is common practice, all Western nations are currently experiencing this.
Girls who are more educated have trouble finding guys who are serious. That’s why most don’t end up in stable, long-term relationships. You can google for more information on this issue. On average, they have it much worse.
I once worked in a place with a lot of highly educated non-Jews. The girls had an extremely difficult time dating anyone relatively normal. Their dating life was filled with ups and downs that B”H we don’t experience. If they were less that genuinely beautiful, they were rarely treated well. The few boys had their pick of girls and no pressure to commit.
On my dates, the worst that ever happened was the guy running a series of red lights. I can’t even discuss their worst dates on YWN CR. I wish I didn’t know about them.
At least I can expect that even if a shidduch doesn’t work out, it won’t be public knowledge among my friends, and I won’t suffer long-term social and emotional fallout. I won’t see the boy again or have to explain myself to anyone other than the shadchan. I also haven’t wasted time, since we make decisions after just a few dates that don’t cover more than a week or two.
We are truly blessed.January 7, 2013 11:52 am at 11:52 am #918208
DY: Yet they had the population growth in earlier generations (i.e. the Baby Boomers and earlier) and yet we heard of no age gap problem with them then either.January 7, 2013 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #918209
I don’t know if there ever was a shortage of males in the non-Jewish world or not. I don’t know if we would ever know about it if there was, for some of the reasons posted here by others.
The assumption that there should be one today, according to the age gap theory, is, though, incorrect.January 7, 2013 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #918210
No because the dating pool is much larger.
Think about how many Chasredim (And MO) are in the dating pool at a time and the number is small and add in the fact that who you can date is an even smaller number (IE Satmar wont date MO) so a small difference seems alot larger.
In he regular world you can just increase your dating pool by dating people out of your community, ie interaccial dating, Interreligious dating, Different social strata dating etcJanuary 7, 2013 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #918211
Who has done a conclusive study to prove that there are more boys than girls? I think the numbers are pretty equal and if you look at most countries you will see the breaksown of boys to girls is pretty equal. I don’t believe that Hashem in His great Rachamim would create 1000’s of more girls than boys making it impossible for them to ever get married. I believe the numbers are about equal if someone did a real census they would find this to be so.January 7, 2013 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #918212
I have a number of non Jewish friends from school and they approach marriage differently. 2 friends who have been dating their boyfriends for over 4 years, live with them. One owns a condo together and the other rent an apartment. They plan I get married eventually but they are working on their careers first. For goyim it is not an unspoken rule that they pay for their kids weddings, and they do not support their married kids. It is very different for goyim. I have many frum friends who are 24, been maried for 3 years and have a few kids and are still 100% financially supported. I on the other hand am married with a child and we are not supported at all, although its not for me I do see the merit in waiting until you can support yourself
Lastly whoever posted about goyim getting divorced 3 or 4 times, sounds like someone is getting defensive because divorces are being much more common in the frum world. This year alone I know of atleast 4 girls my age who it divorced 1 from my very small high school graduating class. The problem isn’t only in the secular world.January 7, 2013 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #918213
frummy in the tummyParticipantJanuary 7, 2013 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #918214
Nobody bats an eye when a 78 year old man marries a 27 year old woman in the non jewish world.January 7, 2013 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #918215
That’s not true. A certain wealthy 86 year old just married a woman 60 years younger than him and the tabloids are all calling her a gold digger and saying its a sham. Your perceptions of the non Jewish works us skewed.January 7, 2013 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #918216
I dont read tabloids. The mainstream press (people, us, ok are not mainstream press), reported his marriage as if it was as normal as his changing his socks.January 7, 2013 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #918217
That marriage is exaggerted./
But its not uncommon for a woman to marry a man 10 years younger than her, Its also not uncommon for interacial marriages (Obama is the offspring of an interacial marriage as is Yankee Derek Jeter).
Catholics will Marry Protestants, Protestants will marry Athiests etcJanuary 7, 2013 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #918218
WIY, I’m surprised that you haven’t grasped the age gap/population growth issue yet.
Frummy, yes we understand it the same way.January 7, 2013 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #918219
Most of the old dudes marry 3+ women, so they’re more than carrying their fair share. Stop hating.January 8, 2013 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #918220
Just calling it a “crisis” is a crisis. Look, sensationalism sells. Nowadays we don’t welcome an inch of snow in December just because it’s winter. Nope – all of a sudden, the NYC metro area is battening down for a “severe storm.” TV & radio weather reporting comes from “Storm Team 11” or “the Severe Weather Center.” Chill out, people. It’s an inch of snow. In December.
Likewise, the shidduch crisis has come about because our values have been warped by the outside world. It isn’t good enough to be good enough. Everyone wants a “mitsuyan.” Everyone wants the “top boy” or “top girl.” Everyone wants the nitpickyiest qualifications.
A Rav I know who does couples counseling published a pamphlet urging people to “Just Settle.” What are you holding out for? Everyone is human. Live with it. A good enough person is good enough. Especially when you are in your 20s, never married. You’re growing together. The most important quality is to be able to grow together and work together to build a marriage.
The “crisis” has arisen because our expectations have arisen. Not pretty enough, too nebbish, wrong color socks with his Shabbos shoes, wears sandals, from the wrong seminary, too Chassidish, too Litvish, can’t drive, can drive…. Who in the old days would have been disqualified as a shidduch for their mother using the “wrong” color tablecloth?
We know an unmarried man who 15 years ago (when he was 40) turned down a late 30’s woman because she would only have been able to have 1 or 2 kids. Now, never married, in his 50s, he has zero kids. What did he gain by waiting for a “better” prospect?
The “Crisis” is that we don’t educate our sons and daughters in what marriage is. We need to tell them how to pick a spouse based on chessed, middos, liveable qualities, the zerizus they exhibit and for what, how to please their spouse, assessing how a persons is going to be for the long run. We’ve focused on short-run qualities forgetting that we are married not just through the dancing and celebrations, but also through lo aleinu illness, hardship, and times of trouble. How equipped are our sons and daughters to deal with that? Can they choose a spouse who has the qualities for “everyday use” and not just “for special”?January 9, 2013 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #918221
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