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I’m curious to know if liberals are really consistent with their beliefs? Do they max out their credit cards and go into debt or do they save their money? Would they allow their children to do something illegal and then fight to legalize that action? Would they buy a more expensive item which they can’t afford but is good for the environment or buy a more affordable item that’s not good for the environment?
HUH?????
Liberals are liberal until THEIR ox is being (Al)gored.
Yes, they preach stealing from people and selfishness, and they do it in real life also.
Some do, some don’t. Just like conservatives.
It’s probably harder for conservatives, who preach to a higher moral standard.
Well they preach tolerance and acceptance of all people. And yet they then show a remarkable intolerance of people with religious and moral values.
@oomis – Well said. 😀
@notasheep – +1As the resident token liberal here I presume this was directed towards me.
“Do they max out their credit cards and go into debt or do they save their money?”
I used to abuse credit cards, but haven’t used them in over a quarter century. I do have a home mortgage and an auto loan, though.
However, the premise of the question is flawed; public finance is nothing like private finance.
“Would they allow their children to do something illegal and then fight to legalize that action?”
You assume that a parent has 100% control over everything a child does!
I would presume that the question refers to drug use and underage alcohol use. I opposed raising the drinking age to 18 and still think that it should be returned to where it was in the 1970s. And I don’t think that marijuana should be illegal even though I personally have ever smoked a joint.
” Would they buy a more expensive item which they can’t afford but is good for the environment or buy a more affordable item that’s not good for the environment?”
I just switched to an all-wind electricity supplier. A natural gas supplier would have been slightly cheaper.
“There were huge protests against Condoleza Rice(black woman)for speaking at the Rutgers graduation.”
Not sure why she was invited. She was the worst National Security Advisor in history and one of the worse Secretaries of State. Before then she had ghostwritten the infamous “Chicken Kiev” speech for the first Bush. I don’t know what she could say that would be of interest to anyone. She had a decent record as a university administrator, but since when to second rank administrators at universities become commencement speakers? The Republicans like to showcase her because she is a black woman, something quite scarce among Republican party leaders. Rutgers eventually got former Gov. Tom Kean to speak. He was a successful governor and would have been worth hearing.
Does anyone really act in ways that are consistent with their beliefs ALL the time? For example, we frum folk all believe in Hashem, the truth of Torah, the obligation to do mitzvos, and the punishments associated with failure to do said mitzvos. Despite those strong beliefs that have been part of us since childhood and instilled by loving parents and mechanchim, we STILL make mistakes, disappoint Hashem with poor choices, and commit all sorts of aveiros. Why should you hold these goyish politicians to a higher standard then ourselves- indeed, we are all hypocritical. This is not a liberal problem, but a poshut fact of human life.
“Do they max out their credit cards and go into debt or do they save their money?”
Although Keynesian economics (which is associated with liberals but has long been supported by many conservatives as well in practice) advocates economic stimulus even it increases the national debt, but that does not mean that it also advocates individuals maxing out their credit cards. So there would be no reason for liberals to take out lots of debt to be in line with their beliefs.
“Would they allow their children to do something illegal and then fight to legalize that action?”
What are you talking about? Marijuana? I think most liberals would not allow their kids to use it, even if they advocate making it legal (many conservatives also advocate legalization as well). I was disappointed, however, with President Obama’s recent remarks saying that marijuana is no worse than alcohol and saying that he would tell his children just that it’s a vice and a waste of time (rather than warning them against in stronger terms).
“Would they buy a more expensive item which they can’t afford but is good for the environment or buy a more affordable item that’s not good for the environment?”
Yes. Organic and other more-expensive-but-environmentally-friendly products are a multi-billion dollar industry in the US (and in Israel too, where organic food is also popular in the religious sector), which I’m sure conservatives contribute to too, but certainly many liberals are the ones buying these products.
Bookworm 120 – 🙂
although i am a proud progressive liberal i cannot speak for all liberals. yes, it is true that liberals are sometimes hypocrites, for example, in their failure to recognize the rights of certain groups including ultra-orthodox jewish communities. some liberals attach to every stance the progressive liberal thought preaches even if there are ulterior reasons for the position. for example, on israel. a true liberal should not be able for one second to support the misogynist, racist, evil and cruel position of the arab world yet we find so many liberals willing to support hamas which hangs gay people and oppose israel which provides freedoms for the same people. nu, such is the way of the world.
the original question is misguided, though. although i believe our penal system is both overtaxed and unfair to blacks and other minorities i believe a distinction needs to drawn between what is the right thing to do and what the law should be. i would not want my children to take drugs, enter a gay relationship or get an abortion but i believe everyone should have the right to do any of those things. that is not being hypocritical. not everything that is a moral vice should be illegal. i also would not want my kids to smoke cigarettes, play in atlantic city or even watch television. those things, of course, are all legal. i also would not want my kids to eat triefus or be mechalel shabbis. those things are not only legal there is no moral vice attached to them.
as an othodox jew, my belief system is formed by the torah but a as a citizen of this great nation i do not want my belief system to form the position of government.
and honestly, are there more conservatives in the bible belt that live on credit and welfare or upper west side liberals? lets be realistic.
Charliehall- the liberals protesting Condoleza rice because of what they call a “war criminal”. I didn’t see any of them having these size protests and Hillary clinton who voted for the Iraqi war. But wait, if I say anything against Hillary Clinton I am perpetrating a war on women, right? The double standard by Liberals in this area is a little unbelievable.
“one of the worse Secretaries of State”
No worse than the third worst by a distant margin, considering Billary and Kerry.
“The Republicans like to showcase her because she is a black woman” As opposed to the lerats who do it lshem shomayim of course. Ha.
“As the resident token liberal here I presume this was directed towards me.”
Or perhaps just based on observing you.
Kfb – Again, you’re assuming untrue statements in your question. The issue of Rice being a good secretary of state is purely a matter of opinion, so I will leave that alone (she did COMPLETELY miss the “planes will fly into towers” memo in August 2001, but whatever).
There is one black Republican senator, Tim Scott. There are two black Democratic senators, Cory Booker and Mo Cowan. I don’t think you know (or choose to selectively ignore) the history of the KKK, the Civil Rights Movement, and the Dixiecrat party. “Southern Democrats” like Strom Thurmond were different from “Democrats” like John Kennedy. The Southern Democrats left the Democratic Party in 1964 to join the Republican party. The pre-civil rights Southern Democrats have no continuity with the current Democratic Party, but do have a lineage right into the current Republican Party. I know, it’s one step beyond a sound-byte, but I encourage you to learn the nuance of history.
Most liberals do not want undocumented immigrants to have instant citizenship with no penalty. I don’t know any that do, and I listen to liberal radio and read the websites. We do recognize that there is a problem with having 11 million people, most of which are law-abiding and working, living in the shadows, not paying taxes and being abused by the labor market. The general “liberal” proposal has been (and this is supported by a number of Republicans and all of the right-wing business groups) to give these people legal worker status, so they can make minimum wage and pay taxes and drive legally (and get insurance), let them apply for a Green Card-like status after going through a background check and paying fines and taxes for the years that they were illegal, then let them get in the back of the line for citizenship. If you have proof of anyone advocating for less (we argue about the fines), please show proof.
Also, the idea of buying something we can’t afford to support the environment is a silly premise. If we can’t afford it, how could we buy it? I can’t afford a Prius (and it’s way too small for my needs), so I bought a fuel-efficient car I could afford. But will we pay a couple of dollars more here or there for pesticide and chemical-free food, or light bulbs that last years and save us money in the long run… sure! It makes good, economic sense.
Charliehall- I personally enjoyed the Freudian typo: “And I don’t think that marijuana should be illegal even though I personally have ever smoked a joint.”
Are you still ever smoking? Lol. I just don’t understand the “even though.”
“Are you still ever smoking?”
Good catch. I actually have never smoked either a nicotine or cannabis cigarette, cigar, or pipe. They actually disgust me.
“the history of the KKK”
The KKK infected both parties. In the South it was mostly the old segregationist Democrats, but in the rest of the country it infected both parties. The KKK actually took over the government of the State of Indiana and its governor was a nominal Republican.
“Was Condoleza Rice worse than Hilary Clinton? Did she know the facts about Benghazi and then lie to the world about it?”
Rice knew the facts about Iraqi WMDs and participated in the Bush administration’s lying about it. Four Americans died in Benghazi, over four thousand in Iraq. So yes, she was worse, although at that time she was still National Security Advisor.
“Pres. Obama has released tens of thousands of illegals with criminal history. “
Actually he has deported hundreds of thousands of illegals and prosecuted tens of thousands of illegals with criminal history.
“Why is Obama punishing the coal industry and having EPA fine businesses who don’t comply to their standards? In doing so, the American citizens have to suffer by paying more at the pumps and paying more for our coned bill.”
You might want to do some research in the future before embarrassing yourself. The Clean Air Act is quite unfavorable to coal as it is the dirtiest fuel commonly used. Ditto workplace safety laws. Are you suggesting that Obama order the executive branch agencies not to enforce the law?
But your “paying more at the pumps” and “paying more for out coned bill” are really out there for lack of connection to reality. No gasoline or diesel fuel in the US is produced from coal, although there are a few synthetic fuel projects under development. And very little electricity is produced by burning coal around here today: The generating plants serving NYC all converted to natural gas or dual (gas/oil) years ago, Indian Point provides some nuclear-generated electricity, and you can also choose a supplier that uses windmills.
“Therefore we are paying alot more, just to support the enviroment with this clean energy nonsense.”
Natural gas and wind now cost less than coal for electricity generation and are far cleaner. Windmills aren’t nonsense.
Kfb – Your wish would come true if you read or listened to something outside of the conservative bubble. What your saying are complete distortions or just fiction. Since Pres. Obama came into office, he’s DEPORTED more illegal immigrants that any president before. When did he release convicted criminal illegals? Do you have a link? He’s not going to waste the ICE’s meager resources to round up law-abiding folks who are going to school and working and paying taxes. He’s focused resources on getting actual criminals. You may disagree with the policy, and that’s fine. But at least deal in facts. Same with VP Biden’s comments, do you have a link to prove that’s what he said?
The EPA hasn’t done anything to the coal industry, much to the dismay of the residents of West Virginia and North Carolina. Did you hear about the coal ash and chemical spills? 300,000 in each state without water for weeks? People getting sick? This is why the coal industry needs safety standards. And if we can convert those jobs to cleaner, cheaper energy, why not?! If someone is employed making solar panels in a factory or installing wind turbines, how is that worse than working in a coal mine? Once upon a time, the oil industry was new and required government subsidies to get off the ground. People were afraid they’d put the whale oil trade out of business and everyone would be unemployed. But the oil industry is now the most profitable on earth.
A bit of forward thinking and living in the fact-based world would make your dream come true, I promise. The budget deficit is 1/2 of what it was, taxes are down across the board, we’ve had over 50 months of job growth. Millions more people have health insurance. The stock market is 2 1/2 times what it was when he took office. Corporate profits are at all time highs. This is the worst socialist president ever!
As Torah Jews, we learn a sugya of Gemara, we’re trying to get pshat. What did Rebbi Shimon actually say? What were his words? Three people may disagree about what he said, but one is true and accepted. And those true words are what shapes the halacha.
I tried pot once. It did nothing for me and never touched it again. I would educate my children to stay away from it and any mind-altering substances, including alcohol. And yes, I do have a drink at Shabbos dinner. So I admit to being a hypocrite about that.
Natural gas and wind now cost less than coal for electricity generation and are far cleaner.
Natural gas is also under attack, because it is obtained by fracking.
Also, wind is either not cheaper, or not obtainable in sufficient quantity. I know, because if it was cheaper someone could make a lot of money providing it instead of other electricity.
The Rashbak: I’ve tried the (jack)pot many times never won it though
Coal produced electricity is a major part of the US total electric output. Just because NY isn’t significantly supplied by coal does not mean the rest of the country could live without it.
Wind is not scaleable. Only some parts of the country have consistent enough wind to generate reliable amounts of electricity, and even in those places original production estimates were overblown (as many VC firms have discovered). And if you were to build enough turbines to generate even a quarter of US electric demand you run the risk of seriously altering weather patterns (factoring in diminishing returns) by introducing such a massive amount of resistance.
Kfb – what plants did the EPA close? Did they close them arbitrarily or because of the massive harm they were causing to local residents? How many jobs have been lost? By all accounts that I can find, the energy sector is going great, hiring is up. And coal ash and chemical are pouring into the rivers and drinking water here in the south. Go look up the recent press conference where the governor of West Virginia announced that the water was safe, but refused to drink it in public!
I took your google challenge. And as I suspected, the conservative media was distorting an otherwise innocuous statistic. Prisoners were not released. The ICE chose not to issue charging orders (criminal arrest and detainment) for 68,000 of the 195,000 undocumented immigrants that it encountered in 2013. The reason? Allocation of resources. Any undocumented person is a “criminal.” So the story was twisted into “Obama releases 68,000 illegal immigrant criminals.” Am I terribly concerned that a guy who works 12 hours a day to support his family and otherwise follows the law is still walking the streets, mowing grass or working in a chicken plant? Not really. You may be, and that’s a valid criticism. We just disagree.
Do humans practice what they preach?
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