Do our eyes tell us what happened to GEORGE FLOYD

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  • #1882001
    Milhouse
    Participant

    n0m, calling a legitimate killing in self-defense “murder”, even with the caveat that it’s not in the legal sense, is still a filthy lie. It is not murder in ANY sense. It’s the exact opposite of murder.

    #1882003
    Milhouse
    Participant

    That Floyd swallowed a large dose of fentanyl immediately before he was arrested is not directly proven, but it is the most reasonable hypothesis that explains all of the evidence. The most likely reason he would have swallowed it just then would be that he was about to be arrested and didn’t want to be caught with it and charged with distribution.

    #1882219
    Health
    Participant

    Milhouse – Your comparison to Yesias Mezrayim – can’t compare to any killing.
    Hashem wants the Goyim to keep the 7 Mitzvos.
    But SADLY almost NOone in the US keeps them.
    Only a few states even have the Death Penality.
    And just yesterday the Federal Gov. just killed s/o, but it was the First time since 2003.

    #1882927
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,
    Floyd did not have a large amount of drugs in his blood. What does it mean that he had 11 ng/mL of fentanyl? I have been around people on high doses of drugs. I did not see any such characteristics with him. What is your experience that makes you so sure? And, the Police should have seen it.

    #1882931
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Chash,
    What is the difference between a chokehold or a kneehold or some otherhold? If I punch someone with serious force and he passes out and is then pronounced dead, it is reasonable to assume I killed him.

    #1882932
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear La,
    The riots were in your area, or you saw coverage of it?

    #1882934
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Daer Dovid,
    Law enforcement alone, cannot quell a riot.

    #1882923
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Milhouse,
    Context context context. The discussion was not about if a murder was actually committed. (It was.) We were discussing if the cause of death deserves investigation. (Or so I thought.) For that discussion, murder cannot mean the ex post facto complete understanding of the event. because than we would have no need for an investigation. So the word ‘murder’ referring only to the legal term, would be misleading. (I have no idea why you require parsing hairs to demonstrate the terminology of the debate. It would be more enlightening if you could state your reasons and sources.) [Just to be clear, this appears to be as close to a brutal murder as it seems. Just because the officer can make a legal argument, it does not assume the nature of the event.]

    #1883095
    Health
    Participant

    nOmesorah -“Just to be clear, this appears to be as close to a brutal murder as it seems. Just because the officer can make a legal argument, it does not assume the nature of the event”

    I agree with Milhouse. You are calling it a brutal murder. Why? I could understand that opinion – if after the cop let go – the perp was dead. Do you even know when the Perp lost his pulse? Or you don’t want to know – because it doesn’t fit your AGENDA?!?
    BTW, your use of fancy Vocabulary – doesn’t make you any More Knowledgeable!

    #1883116
    flowers
    Participant

    Health:
    “Hashem wants the Goyim to keep the 7 Mitzvos.
    But SADLY almost NOone in the US keeps them.”

    There are approximately 328.2 people in the US. Around 1.8 are Jewish. That leaves over 322 million non jews.
    How in the world can you possibly know that most don’t keep them?

    Also, is it a requirement to have the death penalty to be mekayem 7 mitvos? Where does it say that?

    “BTW, your use of fancy Vocabulary – doesn’t make you any More Knowledgeable!”

    That’s a pretty mean thing to say.

    #1883118
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    No. What agenda could I have?

    All those words were not part of my view. It was deemed critical that I explain why I used a term a certain way. [Though maybe it started as something else. Too much side tracking going on.] In order to get to the bottom of what my thought was for that exact word, I had to be a bit fancy. My last post did nothing to back up my argument. I was never asked to prove that part. Nor was I given a real counter argument.

    #1883197
    Health
    Participant

    Flowers -“How in the world can you possibly know that most don’t keep them?”
    If you learnt the 7 Mitzvos, you’d know how I’d know that.
    I’m not here to teach you Torah.

    #1895756
    2scents
    Participant

    The latest filing of the Hennepin County Medical Examiner shows that George Floyd had fatal levels of fentanyl levels and had Floyd been found dead at home, it would have been ruled an overdose death.

    Furthermore, the autopsy revealed no physical evidence suggesting that Mr. Floyd died of asphyxiation.

    #1895785
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Two,

    There has not been a new filing. This is the old one. And has been already discussed. The autopsy is nothing new either. This is a medical/legal opinion, that is coming to from the courts. Let the best lawyer win. [Liberal Americans call it justice.]

    Let me ask, what is the difference if the police kill a healthy person with no rap sheet, than somebody on drugs with a history of drug offenses?

    Is it okay for police to kill only unhealthy people? Are we now to believe that besides being an honorable judge, Derek Chauvin is also a master of medical diagnosis. Police are supposed to target low class individuals and cause them harm?

    (Dear Two,

    I am not referring to what you think. I am recalling some of the drivel that has been inferred on this topic. If you can please enlighten me, as to what the implications of your post meant to you.)

    #1895837
    2scents
    Participant

    Your post is based on the implication that Floyd was killed by the cops.

    Yet it might very much be that all the cop did was hold Floyd down to the floor without occluding his airway or any blood vessels and it was the large dose of opiate that Floyd (might have) consumed that caused the respiratory depression or apnea.

    Whatever did or did not happen, its for sure the optics are not good and Floyd did not ‘deserve’ to die. Yet, the question really is if he was killed by the cops or by the opiates in his system. Would the outcome be any different if he would have been seated in the back seat without any force. Fentanyl is pretty fast acting, if he just consumed a rather large dose of fenatnyl, he might have arrested in the back seat of the police vehicle.

    Unless one gets a kick out of looting and rioting, any rush to judgement is bad and might one day come back to bite someone else.

    #1895878
    2scents
    Participant

    “I am not referring to what you think. I am recalling some of the drivel that has been inferred on this topic. If you can please enlighten me, as to what the implications of your post meant to you’

    I dont think much, and my opinion doesnt matter much. It is the facts that are available and the due process that matters. If the facts turn out to prove one way or another that is all that we have.

    #1895930
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Two,

    Your reasoning is sound, except that the cops hin Minneapolis have a bad record of unjustified killings. And this specific event does not have any benevolent intent. A large amount fentanynl is by itself inconclusive of anything.

    #1895964
    huju
    Participant

    Our eyes tell us nothing if we don’t want to see it. All the rest is commentary.

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