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I am piping mad on this one.
DON’T STEAL! Then you won’t get thrown into jail.
I don’t care if you had the best of intentions, everyone else is doing it, you paid back, etc.
Furthermore, if you don’t show remorse at trial, expect to get the maximum sentence. Rod Blagojevich didn’t show remorse & got a long sentence (14 years). The Spinka Rebbe did show remorse and only got 24 months. Obviously the judge and the system is anti-serbian and pro-semitic.
So if the people in the article are looking for whom to blame, they need only look at the mirror.
gavra_at_work; I don’t know about the cases that you cite in the article, but Jews in general (who are facing charges of fraud and tax evasion) who have to go in front of a Judge or jury, do not get equal justice under the law. Just taking Rubashkin’s case as a recent example. (But there were many others.) He was arrested, convicted and sentenced with such deliberate speed and zeal that no one else, (Who is not Jewish) in the American justice system, who was brought up on similar charges was. There hasn’t been a case in recent memory of someone of Jewish origin, who went before a jury and wasn’t quickly and unanimously convicted of all the charges.
Don’t do anything wrong and you will never need to go to court.
jail Is a cruel and unjust punishment for theft. Thieves should be made to repay double (or 4 or 5 times) the theft. 25+ years for theft (especially when rapists and sometimes murderers get less!!) is just??
Dont do the crime if you cant do the time……
Furthermore, if you don’t show remorse at trial, expect to get the maximum sentence.
Maybe you can expect that. But it makes absolutely no sense.
There are states with “three strikes, you’re out” laws where you can get life in prison for shoplifting a third time. That makes no sense, and we would expect the judge to figure that out and give 2 months, even if the shoplifter shows no remorse, and says he is innocent.
(Of course, if he says he will do it again, maybe I’d support a full 6 months in prison or so.)
Unfortunately I think there is a prejudice against frum jews, but it is partially our fault. We represent a very small percentage of the American population, yet there are probably a much higher percentage of white collar / financial crimes that are attributed to us. There is also the perception that at the first sign of legal trouble we will flee to Israel where we will be protected.
GAW, i get your point, you are 100 percent correct.
However I do have some knowledge and was involved in a few cases in which the defendant got a very unfair verdict.
After all the decisions are made by Humans and Humans have bias.
A frum Chassidishe person is not at all favored by any secular learned person.
I have this discussion with a lawyer, we argued about this, in the end she admitted to it.
The three cases in the article all involved people who should have known they were doing something illegal (did the Rubashkins really believe that the large number of foreigners willing to do undesirable work at low pay all had immigration visas? didn’t those boys realize that if someone tells you not to tell the police about what they were carrying that it might be sign of illegality?). While the goyim’s laws for property crimes are harsh (Jews never imprisoned theives, at worst they would have been put to work to pay the damages), at least they don’t execute them which they did until recently. If there is a degree of discrimination in America against us, it is due to common belief that all Jews are unusually clever and frum Jews are especially holy, and therefore it is harder to convince a jury that we were to dumb to realize we were making a honest mistake (since mistake of fact is often an excuse or at least a mitigating circumstance).
I think if they commit the crime they should be treated as everyone else who commits the same crime is treated. That is to say, if a non-Jew is given community service and/or probation, so should a Jew (especially one who looks like a religious Jew). If the non-Jew is sent to prison, so should the Jew. Don’t do the crime.
Personally, I believe BOTH should be thrown in jail, depending on the crime, though I also believe in mitigating circumstances, and a non-violent offender should not be put into prison in a violent population. The reality is that we Yidden are held to a higher standard by the justice system, and Jews are typically punished FAR worse than non-Jews committing the same type of crime. Look at the Walkers and Jonathan Pollard.
I don’t say that the Jewish criminal should get off scot-free, but if two people Jew and non-Jew commit a bank fraud or medicaid fraud, their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) should not determine who gets a harsher punishment. They are both guilty. Yet, usually, the Jew will be treated more punitively.
The author of that piece never heard of anecdotal evidence. There are people who are mistreated in prison. There are people who get harsh sentences. The fact that 2 Jews in America got harsher-than-expected sentences and that 1 was robbed in jail (the article also attempted to imply that non-Jews aren’t mistreated or robbed while in jail) does not in any way prove that the system is against religious Jews. Such a claim is preposterous based on two anecdotal claims as evidence.
Also the fact that one of the people in the article has changed and is now leading minyanim etc doesn’t mean much to me. Afterall, their are many Catholics in jail who do the same thing and come out of jail and go back to doing what they did previously.
On another note. I know someone personally, he was a Dr. His colleague got him to sign some papers that were illegal. The colleague ran off to Israel and left this Dr to deal with the brunt of the court case… He was in jail for 4 years. B”H he is out now and got his license back but it was a difficult 4 years for him and his family yet he admits that he should have read the papers before signing them.
Zman had a piece in this months issue detailing three cases where law enforcement picked on people for no good reason (not specifically for being jewish)
one was a guy who bought a repossessed car that the owner had reported stolen
one was a guy who drove drunk and had to go through 3 years of tzaros
one was a guy who was arrested for picking up a wallet with the intent to return it
cases one and three were valid…but i strongly objected to case two. the whole time the guy was whining about how he had only had a bit to drink and that they were blowing it out of proportion…no. i must object. i work at a driving school…i take this stuff seriously…and driving drunk is NEVER ok. i really took umbrage at seeing that article sandwiched between two others in which the “victims” were justified in their complaints
Sam2; Generally. If something happened to someone you don’t know personally, it’s anecdotal. When it happens to you or someone you know, it’s statistical. Jut like the argument whether an economic downturn is a recession or a depression. If someone else loses their job, it’s a recession. If you lose your job, it’s a depression.
Its so easy for you all to talk about how a person should sit in prison if you do the crime. Remember in our Torah you cannot judge anyone if you are not in thier shoes, in their mind, in their reasoning wht made them fall to get into that situation. If you all are 100% perfect let me know. Also because he got caught and you didnt , even though you are making money off the books, or overstating your income on a credit card or mortage application is just as illegal. Why should we feel for someone that is in the hospital if Hahsem punished him for something else. It is because we are all Jews and BROTHERS and have a heart for one another. Remember the greatest Mitzvah of charity is to bring a person back to where he was if he fell down. I am sorry to say somepeople have a sickness and do what they do. Therfore it lands them in prison. That person needs help with doctors. To work on the problem. If someone steals prison doesnt help. That person should be put to work and return the money, no matter what it takes.
No time for himself?! What a tzadik! Samet is serving 27 years in prison for a $3million crime, and he has no time for himself.
You mean 24 months off; he has not served.
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