Do you try on clean clothes before the 9 days?
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- This topic has 35 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 10 months ago by rational.
July 9, 2021 10:24 am at 10:24 am #1989996MosheFromMidwoodParticipant
I’ve been putting on all the laundered shirts and pants that I intend to wear during the 9 days for as long as I can remember. I recall it was the custom but wonder if people still do thisJuly 9, 2021 11:13 am at 11:13 am #1990010
People have the custom to do it on shabbos when they are not busy. If it cannot be done, one should step on them. Underware is not really necessary.July 9, 2021 11:32 am at 11:32 am #1990019
Reb E- I think people need to check with their rov before following that advice!! We don’t do heichin lchol on shabbos just cuz you have more time! I am surprised you would even suggest such a thing. And walking on clothes is not a widely accepting loophole so people should PLEASE not accept these ideas without checking with their rov.July 9, 2021 11:33 am at 11:33 am #1990018
Above should be underwear.July 9, 2021 11:47 am at 11:47 am #1990029
I say that as a maasei rav, a halacha lemaaseh in our yeshivas.July 9, 2021 11:49 am at 11:49 am #1990034
In order not to be a hachana for shabbos, wear it a little while. I suggested before, if being a CR for CR, to validate my suggestions with your LOR.July 9, 2021 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #1990039
Syag, what will a person do if they forgot to wear it?July 9, 2021 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #1990038
How can wearing weekday clothes on shabbos ever be seen as not preparing for chol.July 9, 2021 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1990043
If you forgot you shoulf ask your specific rav what you specifically should do in this specific case. Isn’t that how it works with things?
I know it’s not the same thing but if i forget to tear open the pockets of a new suit before shabbos i can’t just do it shabbos. If i forget to tear paper towels before shabbos, i can’t just tear them on shabbos. I know those are different but that may effect the heter, not the obligation to ask.July 9, 2021 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #1990052
Since the RMA says to wear weekday cloth on this shabbos, even though we don’t do it, is our option and therefore, I think, it is not a hachana.July 9, 2021 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1990055jsocherParticipant
>Since the RMA says to wear weekday cloth on this shabbos even though we don’t do it, is our optuon, therefore I think it is not a hachana.
I believe that is only for Shabbos Chazon, which this is not.July 9, 2021 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #1990063
Wearing shabbos cloth every shabbos is in public but in his house he can do what he wants.
See SA O’CH 262,3 and the Biur Halacha there, kelim naim.July 9, 2021 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1990070Yabia OmerParticipant
Wearing clothes so that they become “unlaundered” is only for Shavua shechal bo, which didn’t happen this year.July 9, 2021 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #1990079
Yabia Omer, your comment is for sefardim or also for ashkenazim?July 9, 2021 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #1990089
I am not sure how much clothes you all guys are blessed to have prepared for the next week that you can’t find time to wear them all before shabbos (there are still a couple of hours left where I am). If the core idea is to not wear clean/new clothes, why not continue wearing next week whatever you are wearing now before shabbos?
on another note:
>> I say that as a maasei rav, a halacha lemaaseh in our yeshivas.
Just heard someone noticing how much we_all switched from learning masorah from our own parents and communities to generic approaches taught at schools and written up in books .. The unattributed story about a student questioning the shiur of a kiddush cup at a Rabbi’s house according to the “halakha” and response – it is my zeidy Brisker Rav’s cup, or something like that.
So, I say, if RebE’s zeidi jumped on his clothes on shabbos, gezunte heig .. does not mean that others outside of the family should do that … there is, as menioned, an issue whether this was b’dieved when someone forgot.July 9, 2021 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #1990107
Stepping can be done on a weekday in 9 days when not worn before.July 11, 2021 12:30 am at 12:30 am #1990205
Stepping can be done on a weekday in 9 days when not worn before.
As far as wearing weekday clothes on Shabbos, you are mistaken. It’s hachana.
The only heter is clothing you really could wear on Shabbos (such as a white shirt) and on Shabbos morning, instead of putting on your shirt from Friday night, you out on a fresh shirt, that’s okay. Same when waking up from a nap.
But stam trying on clothes that you don’t need to put on is hachana.July 11, 2021 12:45 am at 12:45 am #1990211BenephraimParticipant
As a child I remember Oberlander Yidden who would not change clothes. Not the suit and not the shirt. They sang לכה דודי toאלי ציון.Any memories past or present?July 11, 2021 1:39 am at 1:39 am #1990218AviraDeArahParticipant
“Stepping on clothes” doesn’t seem to have any identifiable source. It could be that on a dirt floor, stepping on them would make them not “fresh”, but the common practice of wearing clean socks and stepping lightly on clothes placed on a clean floor seems untenable…
In camp we always just wore our shirts and pants for a few minutes, sometimes 2 shirts at a timeJuly 11, 2021 8:55 am at 8:55 am #1990292Avi KParticipant
The prohibition of freshly laundered clothes does not apply to those that are worn to absorb sweat. Some even apply this to shirts (Piskei Teshuvot 551:17). I once read that ordinary slacks are also not a problem.July 11, 2021 10:36 am at 10:36 am #1990348
These are minhagim, that is nedarim taken by our fathers and grandfathers. So, RebE’s grandfathers took on different observances than someone else’s. No need to argue…
What about Sephardim, who exchanged wine in av for selichot in elul. As this year a week before tisha bAv is same as rosh hodesh, do you have shorter selichot? Or you still need to atone for rice on pesach?July 11, 2021 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1990375
So, RebE’s grandfathers took on different observances than someone else’s. No need to argue…
There’s no minhag to allow blatantly preparing for chol on Shabbos.
Besides, my grandfathers had the minhag of pointing out when someone tries to peddle false halacha, so there’s no point in arguing with meJuly 11, 2021 11:48 am at 11:48 am #1990380
DY, did you see the Biur Halacha mentioned above. So as I can wear at home on shabbis any clothing why be a hachana? You might be a Daas Yochid as your name indicates.July 11, 2021 12:08 pm at 12:08 pm #1990400
DY, there’s halachik discussion about tochacha r Tarfon v r Akiva, seforim written about it. Tisha bAv are minhagim. I agree that shabbos might be an issue that is legit to argue.July 11, 2021 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #1990413
DY, if something is only used for weekday, it is a hachana on shabbos otherwise it is not as you are using it for shabbos.July 11, 2021 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #1990460MosheFromMidwoodParticipant
Benephraim: I certainly recall singing Lcho Dodi to KeliTzion but haven’t heard it in many many years.
As for the suggestion that you wear the same clothes as you did before the 9 days, sad to say I have seen people not in the 9 days where the same clothes day after day–unless they happen to have duplicates or more of the same thingJuly 11, 2021 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #1990459AviraDeArahParticipant
Avi – the shirts you’re referring to are probably undershirts.
Piskei teshuvos isn’t a source; it’s a compilation of sources, so would you mind posting which source he brings? Also, if shirts and pants aren’t required to not be freshly laundered, then that just leaves…suits? Clothing that is meant to protect against sweat, like socks, underwear and undershirts, are not a problem because they’re not worn for their own sake, nor are they “choshuv”, but pants and regular shirts? They most definitely are.July 12, 2021 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #1990829
Rev E, if someone is davka changing into weekday clothing to be able to wear it during the week, it is hachana. It’s clear that he’s not doing it because this is what he wants to wear now.July 12, 2021 4:14 pm at 4:14 pm #1990831
See SA O’CH 262,3 and the Biur Halacha there, kelim naim.
You are taking that completely out of context. He is not talking about the 9 days there.July 12, 2021 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #1990851
DY, I used a savoro which is min Hatorah, I did not see you abfregen, making a difference.
See Piskei Teshuvas O’CH 551,115 who brings an argument about it. After plag mincha one can daven maariv, without melacha, and for a mtzva be machshich al hatchum. If stepping on is not good, then bideaved this is an eitza.July 12, 2021 11:10 pm at 11:10 pm #1990940GoldilocksParticipant
Okay, here’s the drill (at least this is what I do):
1) Wake up on the 27th of Tamuz.
Get dressed in fresh clothes.
2) At noontime (or at some point during the day, whenever it’s convenient) change your clothes. Put on a fresh outfit and put what you’ve worn until now in a secure location.
3) Before bedtime, remove the second set of clothes and put them with the first set.
4) Repeat the above procedure on the 28th and 29th of Tamuz.
You now have six changes of clothes that can be worn during the nine days.
The nine days consist of 7 weekdays this year (8 in other years).
You will be just fine!July 13, 2021 8:10 am at 8:10 am #1990958ParticipantParticipant
you got the drill wrong. there are supposed to be 3 sets of clothes. before taking off the first set u say “this one’s too rough.” before taking off the second you say “this one’s too soft.” and when u put on the third say “this one’s just right.”July 13, 2021 10:43 am at 10:43 am #1991055
DY, I used a savoro which is min Hatorah
What sevara?July 13, 2021 11:13 am at 11:13 am #1991081
See here where the באר משה says it’s okay when taking a nap
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14711&st=&pgnum=422July 13, 2021 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1991087
DY, The sevara is that you can wear weekday cloth on shabbos at home according to that Biur Halacha, therefore it is not a hachana.July 14, 2021 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #1991543rationalParticipant
Before one rants about what the halachah is and determines with no hesitation that a given halachic opinion offered here should be disregarded, one should consider the following:
1. Have I ever learned the halachos of hachanah from the primary sources?
2. Do I know how to look up the halachic sources in order to offer a halachic opinion?
3. Is the responder possibly a Rav or halachic authority himself, and if so, who am I to berate him?
4. Am I qualified to determine what is a widely accepted halachic loophole?
Sometimes a bit of self awareness helps.
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