Do you try on clean clothes before the 9 days?

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  • #1989996
    MosheFromMidwood
    Participant

    I’ve been putting on all the laundered shirts and pants that I intend to wear during the 9 days for as long as I can remember. I recall it was the custom but wonder if people still do this

    #1990010
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    People have the custom to do it on shabbos when they are not busy. If it cannot be done, one should step on them. Underware is not really necessary.

    #1990019
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

     

    Reb E- I think people need to check with their rov before following that advice!! We don’t do heichin lchol on shabbos just cuz you have more time! I am surprised you would even suggest such a thing. And walking on clothes is not a widely accepting loophole so people should PLEASE not accept these ideas without checking with their rov.

    #1990018
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Above should be underwear.

    #1990029
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I say that as a maasei rav, a halacha lemaaseh in our yeshivas.

    #1990034
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    In order not to be a hachana for shabbos, wear it a little while. I suggested before, if being a CR for CR, to validate my suggestions with your LOR.

    #1990039
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Syag, what will a person do if they forgot to wear it?

    #1990038
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    How can wearing weekday clothes on shabbos ever be seen as not preparing for chol.

    #1990043
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    If you forgot you shoulf ask your specific rav what you specifically should do in this specific case. Isn’t that how it works with things?

    I know it’s not the same thing but if i forget to tear open the pockets of a new suit before shabbos i can’t just do it shabbos. If i forget to tear paper towels before shabbos, i can’t just tear them on shabbos. I know those are different but that may effect the heter, not the obligation to ask.

    #1990052
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Since the RMA says to wear weekday cloth on this shabbos, even though we don’t do it, is our option and therefore, I think, it is not a hachana.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Reb Eliezer.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Reb Eliezer.
    #1990055
    jsocher
    Participant

    >Since the RMA says to wear weekday cloth on this shabbos even though we don’t do it, is our optuon, therefore I think it is not a hachana.

    I believe that is only for Shabbos Chazon, which this is not.

    #1990063
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Wearing shabbos cloth every shabbos is in public but in his house he can do what he wants.
    See SA O’CH 262,3 and the Biur Halacha there, kelim naim.

    #1990070
    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    Wearing clothes so that they become “unlaundered” is only for Shavua shechal bo, which didn’t happen this year.

    #1990079
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Yabia Omer, your comment is for sefardim or also for ashkenazim?

    #1990089

    I am not sure how much clothes you all guys are blessed to have prepared for the next week that you can’t find time to wear them all before shabbos (there are still a couple of hours left where I am). If the core idea is to not wear clean/new clothes, why not continue wearing next week whatever you are wearing now before shabbos?

    on another note:
    >> I say that as a maasei rav, a halacha lemaaseh in our yeshivas.

    Just heard someone noticing how much we_all switched from learning masorah from our own parents and communities to generic approaches taught at schools and written up in books .. The unattributed story about a student questioning the shiur of a kiddush cup at a Rabbi’s house according to the “halakha” and response – it is my zeidy Brisker Rav’s cup, or something like that.

    So, I say, if RebE’s zeidi jumped on his clothes on shabbos, gezunte heig .. does not mean that others outside of the family should do that … there is, as menioned, an issue whether this was b’dieved when someone forgot.

    #1990107
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Stepping can be done on a weekday in 9 days when not worn before.

    #1990205
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Stepping can be done on a weekday in 9 days when not worn before.

    B’dieved

    As far as wearing weekday clothes on Shabbos, you are mistaken. It’s hachana.

    The only heter is clothing you really could wear on Shabbos (such as a white shirt) and on Shabbos morning, instead of putting on your shirt from Friday night, you out on a fresh shirt, that’s okay. Same when waking up from a nap.

    But stam trying on clothes that you don’t need to put on is hachana.

    #1990211
    Benephraim
    Participant

    As a child I remember Oberlander Yidden who would not change clothes. Not the suit and not the shirt. They sang לכה דודי toאלי ציון.Any memories past or present?

    #1990218
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    “Stepping on clothes” doesn’t seem to have any identifiable source. It could be that on a dirt floor, stepping on them would make them not “fresh”, but the common practice of wearing clean socks and stepping lightly on clothes placed on a clean floor seems untenable…

    In camp we always just wore our shirts and pants for a few minutes, sometimes 2 shirts at a time

    #1990292
    Avi K
    Participant

    The prohibition of freshly laundered clothes does not apply to those that are worn to absorb sweat. Some even apply this to shirts (Piskei Teshuvot 551:17). I once read that ordinary slacks are also not a problem.

    #1990348

    These are minhagim, that is nedarim taken by our fathers and grandfathers. So, RebE’s grandfathers took on different observances than someone else’s. No need to argue…

    What about Sephardim, who exchanged wine in av for selichot in elul. As this year a week before tisha bAv is same as rosh hodesh, do you have shorter selichot? Or you still need to atone for rice on pesach?

    #1990375
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So, RebE’s grandfathers took on different observances than someone else’s. No need to argue…

    There’s no minhag to allow blatantly preparing for chol on Shabbos.

    Besides, my grandfathers had the minhag of pointing out when someone tries to peddle false halacha, so there’s no point in arguing with me

    #1990380
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    DY, did you see the Biur Halacha mentioned above. So as I can wear at home on shabbis any clothing why be a hachana? You might be a Daas Yochid as your name indicates.

    #1990400

    DY, there’s halachik discussion about tochacha r Tarfon v r Akiva, seforim written about it. Tisha bAv are minhagim. I agree that shabbos might be an issue that is legit to argue.

    #1990413
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    DY, if something is only used for weekday, it is a hachana on shabbos otherwise it is not as you are using it for shabbos.

    #1990460
    MosheFromMidwood
    Participant

    Benephraim: I certainly recall singing Lcho Dodi to KeliTzion but haven’t heard it in many many years.
    As for the suggestion that you wear the same clothes as you did before the 9 days, sad to say I have seen people not in the 9 days where the same clothes day after day–unless they happen to have duplicates or more of the same thing

    #1990459
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Avi – the shirts you’re referring to are probably undershirts.

    Piskei teshuvos isn’t a source; it’s a compilation of sources, so would you mind posting which source he brings? Also, if shirts and pants aren’t required to not be freshly laundered, then that just leaves…suits? Clothing that is meant to protect against sweat, like socks, underwear and undershirts, are not a problem because they’re not worn for their own sake, nor are they “choshuv”, but pants and regular shirts? They most definitely are.

    #1990829
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Rev E, if someone is davka changing into weekday clothing to be able to wear it during the week, it is hachana. It’s clear that he’s not doing it because this is what he wants to wear now.

    #1990831
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    See SA O’CH 262,3 and the Biur Halacha there, kelim naim.

    You are taking that completely out of context. He is not talking about the 9 days there.

    #1990851
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    DY, I used a savoro which is min Hatorah, I did not see you abfregen, making a difference.
    See Piskei Teshuvas O’CH 551,115 who brings an argument about it. After plag mincha one can daven maariv, without melacha, and for a mtzva be machshich al hatchum. If stepping on is not good, then bideaved this is an eitza.

    #1990940
    Goldilocks
    Participant

    Okay, here’s the drill (at least this is what I do):
    1) Wake up on the 27th of Tamuz.
    Get dressed in fresh clothes.
    2) At noontime (or at some point during the day, whenever it’s convenient) change your clothes. Put on a fresh outfit and put what you’ve worn until now in a secure location.
    3) Before bedtime, remove the second set of clothes and put them with the first set.
    4) Repeat the above procedure on the 28th and 29th of Tamuz.
    You now have six changes of clothes that can be worn during the nine days.
    The nine days consist of 7 weekdays this year (8 in other years).
    You will be just fine!

    #1990958
    Participant
    Participant

    @goldilocks
    you got the drill wrong. there are supposed to be 3 sets of clothes. before taking off the first set u say “this one’s too rough.” before taking off the second you say “this one’s too soft.” and when u put on the third say “this one’s just right.”

    #1991055
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    DY, I used a savoro which is min Hatorah

    What sevara?

    #1991081
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1991087
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    DY, The sevara is that you can wear weekday cloth on shabbos at home according to that Biur Halacha, therefore it is not a hachana.

    #1991543
    rational
    Participant

    Before one rants about what the halachah is and determines with no hesitation that a given halachic opinion offered here should be disregarded, one should consider the following:
    1. Have I ever learned the halachos of hachanah from the primary sources?
    2. Do I know how to look up the halachic sources in order to offer a halachic opinion?
    3. Is the responder possibly a Rav or halachic authority himself, and if so, who am I to berate him?
    4. Am I qualified to determine what is a widely accepted halachic loophole?
    Sometimes a bit of self awareness helps.

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