October 8, 2009 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #661732starwolfMember
Joseph, as usual, you simply disregard the quotes that disagree with your position.
See those by Truthsharer above. You pick quotations and believe that this was the position of a given Gadol, even when they may have given contradictory positions at different times (presumably under different circumstances). If that helps your black-and-white worldview, so be it; do not expect the rest of Am Yisrael to join in.
There are numerous examples of Jews following professions, and excelling in them. Perhaps you should visit the Universities in Italy in which Jews (all religious) attended and studied (in addition to their Torah studies). The fact that such people are not mentioned in your Yeshiva education does not mean that they did not exist.
As one example of such a person, try reading up on Rav David Gans.October 9, 2009 12:07 am at 12:07 am #661733A600KiloBearParticipant
Perhaps you should visit the Universities in Italy in which Jews (all religious) attended and studied (in addition to their Torah studies).
And their descendants are tragically among the least observant and coldest Jews on this planet. If it were not for an influx of Libyan and Persian Jews, and Chabad shluchim who largely succeed only among these immigrants and their children, Judaism in Italy would be relegated to the museums and a small cliquish community in Rome.October 9, 2009 4:24 am at 4:24 am #661734starwolfMember
Oh please. The depletion of Italian Jewry happened about the same time as the depletion of the rest of European Jewry.
As far as the remnant, many of them did learn a lesson and move to a country where Jewish life and Torah are flourishing.October 9, 2009 4:28 am at 4:28 am #661735JotharMember
Truthsharer, faulty in essence or degree?
Anon, I have many friends who attended local CUNY schools. I’m not referring to a non-dorm school, where one’s ruchnius can be reinforced off-campus with traditional family life. There are still nysyonos but they’re a lot less.October 9, 2009 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #661736JotharMember
Furthermore, the authors of the study stand by their report. It makes sense that people argued against it, since their black-and-white facts slaughtered a lot of sacred MO cows about attending an Ivy League college being the pinnacle of Yiddishkeit.
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