October 11, 2013 8:00 pm at 8:00 pm #610863ultimaterockMember
If people used the arrested thugs (or similar types) to beat someone into giving a “get”, if the wife remarries afterwards are future children mamzeirim? If so there may be many mamzeirim out there.October 11, 2013 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #994100Sam2Participant
In theory, it depends. In reality, it is quite difficult to prove that a Get was Meuseh (and that he still did not give it B’lev Shalem; M’useh by itself is only a P’sul D’rabannan so we would throw every Kula in the book and more at the case to make sure the kids aren’t Mamzerim) and the burden of proof is entirely on the former husband. Therefore, while in theory it could create Mamzerim, such a case occurring L’ma’aseh would be incredibly rare.October 11, 2013 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #994101midwesternerParticipant
Yes, an invalid get causes mazeirus. There are halachically legal processes by which one can force a get, (get me’useh b’Yisroel) in which case it would be a kosher get, and the subsequent children will not be mamzeirim.
There is, however, a cheirim from Rabbeinu Tam, on one who is motzi laaz on a get finalized by a bais din. Given the number of people that have violated that cheirim in the last couple of days right here in the coffeeroom, it may be ossur at this point to visit, for those not in that cheirim may no longer be permitted to associate with quite a large number of posters.October 11, 2013 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #994102jwashingMember
i would first read the halachic view of the events that just occurred i read that before he died reb eleyashiv claimed that the gittin forced by some of the people involved in the indecent were not kosherOctober 13, 2013 12:26 am at 12:26 am #994104akupermaParticipant
If the woman involved in an invalid “get” has children by another man, the child is a putative mamzer. The reason for saying “putative” is that in practice most batei dinim tend to “bend over backwards” to avoid deciding that someone is a mamzer, so unless a “get” is clearly invalid by at opinons, the likelihood was/is/will be that the child will eventually be held to be a non-mamzer (either by validating the “get” or otherwise, such as by finding the marriage to have been invalid). In this area the “theory” as to what halacha is tends to vary from what most rabbanim end up deciding in actual cases involving the children of the woman with a dubious “get.”
If you don’t believe, do an empirical study of shaiolohs and tseuvahs.October 13, 2013 1:16 am at 1:16 am #994105popa_bar_abbaParticipant
It appears the day is coming when we will consider all chovevei-niks to be safek mamzerim.October 18, 2013 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #994106the-art-of-moiParticipant
This is so sad!So many neshamos were harmed by those…. I’ll leave it at that.October 18, 2013 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #994107FiddlerMember
the-art-of-moi: You think those kids are …?October 20, 2013 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #994109RedlegParticipant
This issue illustrates the difference between theoretical halacha and real psak and the reason that, in serious issues, one should not rely on looking it up in Mishna Berurah or asking a such shailah to your average Rosh haYeshiva. If you have a serious question that involves life and death (real of figurative) as your Kehilah Rav, someone who deals with real people in the real world.October 20, 2013 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #994110the-art-of-moiParticipant
I’m not a rabbi(not even close) but my educated asumption is that if a guy was forced into giving a get, his wife is still married to him. And if those women married, their kids are mamzerim.
BTW- I don’t get the whole Joseph thing. Anyone care to explain?October 20, 2013 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #994111October 20, 2013 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #994112apushatayidParticipant
does an invalid shechita cause treifos? the answer to your question is obvious. what is not as obvious is the halachic application of kofin oso. Im not a rav or a thug, im not qualified to answer from either perspective.October 20, 2013 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #994113–Participant
does an invalid shechita cause treifos?
Normally it would cause neveilos.October 21, 2013 1:52 am at 1:52 am #994114apushatayidParticipant
I meant to write tarfus, I guess linguistics is not one of my strengths either.December 16, 2013 11:06 am at 11:06 am #994115Israeli ChutznikMember
The ??? ????? writes that according to ??? ???????? THE ???? of ?? ????? is ????????December 16, 2013 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #994116Israeli ChutznikMember
the question is wrongly asked.
An invalid get will always cayse mamzeirus, the question is what is needed to amke a get valid and avoid mamzeirus.December 16, 2013 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #994117popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Well really having kids with someone else afterwards is the part that causes mamzeirus.December 16, 2013 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #994118YW Moderator-127Moderator
Closing the topic pending moderator review.
- The topic ‘Does an invalid "get" cause mamzeirus?’ is closed to new replies.