Does anyone’s mind change, or is it argue for the sake of argument?

Nope

Those aren’t the only two options.

I argue for the sake of, i hope, kovod shomayim. And i do learn some things along the way.

There are some things I’m not open to, such as the avodah zara of nationalism, feminism, god-in-a-body ideology, internet filters not being important, drafting bochurim, and other things that the gedolim said were off limits.

But other things I’ll consider if they’re not apikorsus according to gedolei yisroel.

I’ve changed people’s mind.

UJM: “I’ve changed people’s mind”

Perhaps, but more about you than the subject matter of the thread. You’ve clearly demonstrated a unique ability to be the “smartest guy in the room” with the least sechel.

did the pro-hamas demonstrators change people’s minds?

“Myself included. I’m referring to when your trolls go off the rails.”

Allow me to address the so-called “trolling” you refer to. Sometimes I’ll utilize humor, witticisms, irony, deadpan, satire or absurdism to creatively highlight a point.

I am thankful to this site that enables, and enforces, anonymous and civil discussions on controversial . There is a good reason, not just desire to troll, that many discussions are so harsh. It is rarely possible to have discussions between different shitos in person. First, people tend nowadays to live among those with the same opinions and hat fashion. Second, many would be reluctant to ask hard questions of people they know personally. Who wants to have a shidduch ruined just because you are curious about Zionism …

So, the fact that many/most posters do not seem to change their minds is not just a sign of our stubbornness, but also that many come here with well developed opinions that are not easily destroyed by a contact with opposite opinions. Still, I think people at least modulate their opinions in view of what others are saying.

This is also a great place to practice “what to answer an apikoiros” in case you would encounter one IRL, HvS.

I also hope that people who hold by the opinion that most hoi polloi should not go to college or get exposed to different opinions, but think that they are the ones who cna handle it, ask their posek first.

I mostly lurk and learn. And even though many arguments are above my pay grade, I nonetheless get lots of chizuk from the achdus on display – true ahavas chinam, imho, with very few hidden reproofs.

The world is undergoing change. In the United States, the party that most Jews considered “home” two generations, including most frum Jews until recently, is increasingly led by a faction that openly supports genocide of our people. This is the first time in American history that open advocacy of genocide has been politically correct, and undermines the view held by most Jews in North America is that we are “safe” here.

Israel is fighting a major war and the outcome is in doubt.

In 1991 the wrote about the “end of history” – meaning actual peace and prosperity in our time. It hasn’t worked out that way.

If you are confident of any political, economic or social facts that you knew were true 50 years ago, you have no reason to believe they are still are.

RebE, exactly. R Yohanan went mad without having someone to argue with after Resh Lakish petirah. This room is definitely precenting that for many of us!

The Shevet Sofet says that the wife is a help mate when showing a view against him. ezer kenegdo.

I started posting because I thought some people were just misinformed about some ideas. It didn’t take too long to realize that they are not open to hear the truth, and continue to accuse others of things that never happened and twist their words the way they want in order to justify their claims against them.
But I continued posting cuz I enjoy it. And so maybe others who see the thread with an open mind will see whose arguments are logical and who’s are not.

Kahneman/Tversky call this crystallization. When give two contradictory pieces of information, most decision makers bias themselves towards the first one they heard. This is confirmed even for professionals. I did at some point very limited experiment like this with several groups of people, and the group of those who learn Gemora showed lower bias (two other groups were grad students and professors in Engineering). Hopefully, if you learn well, this is one of the things you should be able to master – assess information logically rather than based on precedence, authority, personal taste. This could be a part of the test whether one is a talmid chochom …

The Beis Hilel quoted the view of the Beis Shamai first because of their humility before their decision.

I understand that both of them heard the other side (that was not CR!), but BH would present the other position first, showing that they respect them and also avoiding the bias. We can see here how often people bring arguments solely supporting their own side, leaving it to the opponent to present theirs. This is a sign of how assimilated we are: such approach is common in American/Western “free speech” debate, but not the best in Jewish tradition. This is also alluded in the gemora that compares talmidei chachamim of Bavel with roosters and others – meaning people who learned how to argue but not how to strive for emes.

We are also not equating our arguments to them.