October 7, 2010 2:36 am at 2:36 am #592556cofeefanMember
if someone does real total complete teshuva m’ahava and is working on themself on the midda does it mean the avayra goes away so to speak? and not just from the eyes of Hashem but from the public… meaning no one would find out what they did?
i was having a discussion about this with someone and i’m surious what people thinkOctober 7, 2010 4:04 am at 4:04 am #699181WIYMember
Teshuvah Meahavah will eliminate it in Hashems eyes but that doesnt mean people will get amnesia, however I believe that if you do a sincere Teshuvah Meahavah then Hashem wont punish which means you wont have to suffer any embarrassment due to what you did which means what you did will remain private, nobody will talk about it…
My opinion.October 7, 2010 4:10 am at 4:10 am #699182artchillParticipant
If a person caused damage to another person, he must compensate that person. Teshuva alone won’t help, no matter how me’ahava it might be. If the person is a public nuisance they have an even harder challenge. So, it’s not clear how the public won’t find out.
By the way, MIDDOS must be worked on. TESHUVA applies to an action. So, the premise of Teshuva Me’ahava for a middah doesn’t quite jibe.October 7, 2010 5:16 am at 5:16 am #699183holtzichfestMember
it does as a matter of fact it may even become a mitzvah but these questions really should not be asked on the internet they need to be asked to a rov or rebbe who can help you and go through the whole sugya of tsuvah its a very big sugya hatzlacha, vihaba litaher misayin oisoOctober 7, 2010 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #699184cofeefanMember
just to clarify… i am not talking about any specific person here i was jst talking to a friend about yom kppur and how it feels good to be “clean” then we gpt into a discussion about if we are ever really clean and this topic came up so i was wondering what people thought.
artchill-thanks for the clarification but i meant working on the middah that MADE the person do the avayra in the first place ie: jealousy, pride, anger etc. i probably should’ve writen that.
what if the person did not hurt anyone but Hashem and themself and no one knows what they did….October 7, 2010 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #699185theprof1Participant
Chazal and many seforim discuss in length about teshuva m’ahava. All clearly state that avayros become zochiyos or merits in the Heavenly ledgers. WIY is right about people around you not forgetting but that Hashem would protect you from embarassment. I have this theory about zedonos naaseh zochiyos. We know that Hashem is beyond Time, that He knows what happened and will happen. Of course that becomes problematic to Free Will. However one answer to this is that Hashem knows all the future scenarios of your actions. He knows what the scenario would be if you do an avyaro or if you would do the good deed or mitzvos at that time. When you c’v do an avayro, the Heavenly video machine, ayin roeh v’ozen shomaas, records your actions. However when you do teshuva m’ahava, Hashem removes the avayro recording and replaces it with the virtual knowledge of the alternate scenario, had you done a mitzva. The scenario that Hashem “knew” before you did anything. I’d like to emphasize that this is only bein odom l’mokom. Sins you do to others must be compensated before you are forgiven by Hashem.
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