Does Planet Earth exist, in Torah terms

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  • #608471

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Is there a concept of planet Earth in Torah? Because I always took ???? to be the more general universe, like in math (like you have the universe of integers, or the universe of real numbers, so you have the olam hashafel,the universe of lower beings, or olam haruchani, the spiritual world. Then there’s ???? ????, but that more specifically refers to land.

    So is there a concept of planets, and planet Earth specifically, in Lashon Hakodesh?

    #935749

    shnitzy
    Member

    “Ahem.” (Deep proffesorial voice) “I would wonder why it is said God created the luminaries on day four, if as you say, the earth may not be a planet.”

    Check out Parshas Beraishes. It states quite clearly how Hashem created the world.

    #935750

    old man
    Participant

    Unless anyone else has a better quote, the closest I can think of is from psukei d’zimrah, ?????? ???? ?’ ????????? ?? [??????] ???????? ??? ??????????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????????? ????? ?????? ??????

    Maybe this refers to Earth the Planet.

    In any case, Parshas Breishis does not state clearly in any way how Hashem created the world. A few paragraphs is hardly a technical manual for quite a complex project.

    #935751

    benignuman
    Participant

    Shnitzy,

    Parshas Bereishis is anything but clear and should not be taken literally. See the second perek of Chagiga.

    #935752

    shnitzy
    Member

    That’s what Mefarshim are for. It’s all there.(Or at least whatever we are allowed to know is)

    #935753

    realtalk
    Member

    Im not sure if this counts but there is a midrash that says that each day of creation is correspondant to an era and this era is the fourth day of creation and after year 7000 it will be destroyed and there will be no more people/ worlds. I was never comfortable with that midrash so I dont remember 100%

    #935754

    twisted
    Participant

    and Yeshayahu 40:22

    #935755

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    FYI Not all planets are actual land that you could walk on.

    Theoritically you can only walk on Mercury, Venus and Mars along with most of the Moons and Astroids.

    We have landed robots on Mars and of course man has been to the Moon

    #935756

    shnitzy
    Member

    *gasp*

    No way! Man has been to the moon!?! Why haven’t I heard about that???

    #935757

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    No way! Man has been to the moon!?! Why haven’t I heard about that???

    The Rambam held the moon was a spirtual and not a physical place.

    When the Moon landings were about to occur in 1969, Rav Yaakov Kaminetsky was excited to watch it to see if the Rambam was correct or not

    #935758

    akuperma
    Participant

    In Hebrew, they often refrer to “Kadur ha-Ha’aretz” to distinguish it from the word “aretz” which can also refer to Eretz Yisrael, or land in general. Until a few hundred years ago, there really wasn’t much need to develop vocabulary in any language to distinguish planets, but the relatively recent invention of telescopes changed that. English, which has the richest vocabularly of any language has a similar problem, as “Earth” can also mean “dirt” as well as the planet we live on.

    One could look for deep meanings in all this, but in reality, it’s a matter than words generally don’t get invented for things that people never have to deal with.

    #935759

    squeak
    Participant

    The moon landing is a scam. Get a telescope and scour the “surface” for the flag that was shown on tv – you won’t see it. Because it is not there. NASA staged the landing on a Hollywood set it to make JfK’s prediction “come true”. Most likely the moon cannot be landed on (extra terrestrial physics are different) and they didn’t want to admit defeat. The moon is probably a figment, like a rainbow here on earth.

    #935760

    shnitzy
    Member

    Perhaps it’s your eyesight that’s the issue.

    #935761

    The Torah also doesn’t talk about the western hemisphere or Australia. Do these things not exist?

    #935762

    squeak
    Participant

    That is not very convivial, wouldn’t you agree?

    #935763

    shnitzy
    Member

    That was a gentle smilie suggestion.

    😀 😀 😀

    Wouldn’t you agree???

    #935764

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    old man: Interesting. I like that.

    Akuperma: Thank you for a clear and reasonable answer.

    Squeak: Stop confusing people.

    #935765

    WIY
    Member

    Torah,

    ??? means earth.At least Im pretty sure thats what is meant that Hashem created shomayim vaaretz and that aretz means earth. “Hashamayim shamayim lashem veharatezt nassan livnei adam.” Something tells me that passuk isnt about Mars or the moon.

    #935766

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    land

    #935767

    Eretz means land. In modern Hebrew it may also mean earth, no way does the torah discuss “planet Earth.”

    #935768

    benignuman
    Participant

    SecularFrummy,

    That isn’t quite accurate. “Eretz” is certainly used in Tanach to mean more than just land. It is used to refer to the whole realm wherein man functions. WIY cited one possuk, and there are many that refer to “Eretz” in contrast to “Shemayim.” Shemayim itself is sometimes used to refer to the sky and sometimes to refer to greater space and sometimes to the metaphysical realm inhabited by angels and the like.

    #935770

    squeak
    Participant

    You can’t accuse me of confusing people. I was on the set when I visited California in 1969, only 2 weeks after the landing was shot. It was going to be in Universal’s park when it opened, but the government stopped them.

    There is a good reason why private trips to space end at the ISS. If it were possible, don’t you think people would pay to visit the moon?

    #935771

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Squeak: LOL. I had a teacher once who argued your point here, maybe you’re she? For those interested, it’s an optical illusion that has to do with the way they put up the flag on the moon, not an actual wind.

    #935772

    benignuman
    Participant

    Squeak,

    You’re kidding, right?

    #935773

    shnitzy
    Member

    Pffffft. No, he’s completely serious.

    #935774

    squeak
    Participant

    Quiet, ectoplasm, I have a potential enlightened one here.

    Yes benignuman, I am completely serious. There are many truths in this world that would surprise you, this is one of them.

    #935775

    shnitzy
    Member

    Notice his subtitle, benignuman?? I wonder what it says about him…*cough cough*

    He’s just SQUEEEEEAKING at you!!

    #935776

    WIY
    Member

    Squeak

    I cant believe you buy into that conspiracy theory.

    #935777

    benignuman
    Participant

    Squeak,

    If they surprise me then it is likely because I have evidence to the contrary.

    I would suggest building a giant, planet-sized computer to examine these “truths.”

    #935778

    squeak
    Participant

    There is no such thing as a planet in the Torah, so there cannot be any planet sized computer. Unless you believe mice are the most intelligent beings…

    #935779

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I cant believe you buy into that conspiracy theory.

    I can.

    #935780

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There is no such thing as a planet in the Torah, so there cannot be any planet sized computer. Unless you believe mice are the most intelligent beings…

    Where in the Torah is Aurora Borealis, I guess that doesnt exist either.

    #935781

    squeak
    Participant

    Where in the Torah are you? I guess you don’t exist either.

    #935782

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Where in the Torah are you? I guess you don’t exist either.

    I dont exist, I am an avatar

    #935783

    squeak
    Participant

    I believe in many things that the general populace is brainwashed against. Some examples that come to mind instantly are

    – The need to conserve gravity. We are fortunate to live in an area of the world that has abundant amounts of gravity, but it is a limited resource. I fear we are nearing “peak gravity” and we should begin conserving before a crisis hits.

    – The Earth is flat. Pictures from space are fake, designed in Hollywood. Check out the Bedford Level experiment for scientific data that backs this.

    – Republicans and Democrats are the same political party, run by the few richest Americans. The reason for acting as two parties is to give the people the illusion that there is actually a democratic system and that they actually participate in government. This very effectively controls the people and prevents an uprising.

    – As I mentioned, I’ve been on the Hollywood set where the moon landings were shot before it was dismantled by presidential order.

    I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but an academic and a researcher. I am not easily convinced but I’ve seen enough to prove these. When you’ve done half the research I have we can have a serious debate.

    #935784

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Squeak: lol we must have moved in the same circles at one point.

    #935785

    benignuman
    Participant

    Squeak,

    I was assuming that you believed that given your tagline. But given that a tagline just appeared randomly under my Username (and appears to have nothing to do with me) the same might have happened to you.

    I apologize.

    I am certain that you are wrong about the Earth being flat however. I have seen the curvature of the Earth myself.

    #935786

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Benignuman,

    The subtitle seems to be your screen name divided: Benign Uman.

    #935787

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Squeak, there’s a replica of 770 in Kfar Chabad. Does that prove there’s no 770 in Crown Heights?

    #935788

    squeak
    Participant

    Different story altogether- you are talking about a replica and an original, but what I saw is the original and only. There are no replicas.

    Benign, if you mean you have seen the curvature with your eyes, it’s an optical illusion. Magicians use illusions to fool us all the time, so don’t feel bad for being gullible and believing what you saw. (Also, yes, I had absolutely nothing to do with my subtitle. Didn’t ask for it, and don’t much care what the mods choose to do with it. Now watch them try to make me care 🙂

    #935789

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Squeak reminds me of the teacher who asked our Bais Yaakov seventh grade class, “Does anybody here know someone who went to the moon?” and then proceeded to insist that this demonstrates that the moon landing was faked.

    #935790

    squeak
    Participant

    I’ve never taught seventh grade. But I did have a 20 minute conversation with John Glenn.

    #935792

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Squeak, you’re defending your proof by repeating your assertion.

    #935793

    sam4321
    Participant

    Squeak: Talmud Yerushalmi Avodah Zarah 3:1 ,world is round.

    #935794

    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    There is no coca-cola on the moon. There is no 770 replica on the moon. This proves conclusively that it can’t be landed on.

    #935795

    Curiosity
    Participant

    T613, I believe your subtitle is missing a dTorah on the end. In which case it would evaluate to 613/3*Torah^3 + C … sorry; it’s Spring break, and I’m having calculus withdrawals.

    #935796

    Squeak- If you think the Earth is flat, explain time zones. Why is it that when one calls Israel they are 7 hours ahead?

    #935797

    squeak
    Participant

    As I said, I don’t feel any obligation to present proof. I’ve done extensive first hand research, and I assume none of you have- we don’t count simply listening to teachers as research. The basic questions that you have right now can be easily answered and if you care enough you can find those answers. If you are intrigued, at that point I’d be interested in discussing.

    #935798

    i am not getting the thread,

    the earth surely exists, your question seems to be how it is referred to in biblical hebrew

    #935799

    benignuman
    Participant

    Daas,

    Thanks for the explanation, now that I get it, it is funny.

    Everyone else,

    Squeak is pulling our legs. He is demonstrating the absurdity of classic internet debating technique “you can’t understand or have an opinion because you aren’t as educated as I am.”

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