Does taking on more chumros make one a greater tzaddik?

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  • #598828
    musser zoger
    Participant

    I try to follow halacha and not take on chumros I’m not sure I can keep. If someone who makes yiddishkeit harder than it’s supposed to be acting meritorious?

    #801089
    Hacham
    Member

    If someone makes geders, fences, to keep him away from where he shouldn’t be, that is very praiseworthy.

    #801090
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    As with everything else, it depends on intentions. See Gemorah Nedarim 10B (IIRC), Re: Nazir.

    #801091
    ZeesKite
    Participant

    I’m not sure I could follow your chumra of not taking on chumros. It’s making my yiddishkeit harder than it’s supposed to be.

    #801092

    It depends on the particular chumra in question. Ask your rebbe. Your first question was “Does taking on more chumras make someone a bigger tzaddik?” Well, keeping a chumra doesn’t make someone a tzaddik, but becoming a tzaddik might lead someone to take on a chumra.

    #801094
    yic
    Member

    it depand which chumris on which thing if it is made like a fance he should not dot things that are ussir then its good but plain make chumris out of the blue things what you dind’t see by your father on this is the t”s in hilches shabiss saying that hamchmer mfris al miedosf

    #801095
    on the ball
    Participant

    I think it depends on the intent and also the type of chumros. If after taking a long hard look inside yourself it is still out of genuine love or awe of Hashem in the same way that one would l’havdil go the extra mile for one’s father or a beloved ruler then it must be Ok.

    But if it’s a case of trying to jump to a spiritual level that you’re not truly yet on like running before you can walk or to try and earn accolades from onlookers then unless it is an accepted custom to keep this chumra then maybe it’s better to steer clear. Some chumros are specifically designated by Chazal as ‘Mechzei K’Yuharo’ i.e. appearing haughty.

    Best to ask a Rabbi anyway.

    #801097
    simcha613
    Participant

    The Mesilas Yesharim talks about the value of chumros, and imho, the more the better. However, one has to realize that there are three types of chumros:

    1. I’m doing a chumra because I want people to think I’m frum.

    2. I’m doing a chumra because I’m an am ha’aretz, I don’t know the halachah, therfore I will be machmir so I don’t make a mistake.

    3. I know the halachah, I know the different shitos, and while I know we paskin lekula, I want to be machmir because it will have a positive impact on my avodas Hashem.

    Number three is (imho) the type of chumra that the Mesilas Yesharim was talking about. Number one should never be done, and number two should only be done when stuck, and you should look up the halachah as soon as you can.

    In addition, if we paskin lekula and a person is choosing to be machmir, his chumras should never be imposed on someone else. Better to be meikil then to be machmir and inconvenience others (forcing others to carry because you don’t want to hold by a perfectly good eruv is an example).

    Also, chumras are a choice, an instrument to be a better oveid Hashem, and never should be a source of arrogance. As soon as the chumras are causing you to feel arrogant and/or to look down on others, it’s doing more harm than good and should be stopped.

    #801098

    I don’t believe so, but you will certainly get a different answer…

    #801099
    charliehall
    Participant

    “If someone who makes yiddishkeit harder than it’s supposed to be acting meritorious?”

    Maybe, maybe not. We should all have a rav who can guide us as to what chumrot to take on in order to further our own spiritual growth. And we should NEVER demand that others take on our own chumrot.

    #801100
    golden mom
    Member

    u have to be real on the inside and try to be the best u can be…depends also what u consider a chumra…somepeople are so frum on the outside but unfortuantly not so inside

    #801101
    yungerman1
    Participant

    The famous pshat in Kdoshim Tihiyu is to refrain from things that are permitted, meaning taking on stringincies and the like. (There are other pshatim)

    So yes, taking on chumros is meritorious, although I dont feel that gives someone the title of tzadik.

    #801102
    kgh5771
    Participant

    As a Rav of mine once said, “Being machmir is easy. It’s following Halacha that’s hard.”

    #801103
    old man
    Participant

    no

    #801104
    RSRH
    Member

    It could be. But a machmir must always understand that their churos do not only affect them, and when it is appropriate to keep them, and when not. For example, while I may be makpid, k’daas hamachmirim, to NEVER EVER eat food containing liquid that is heated up on shabbos, no matter how the heating is done, I would not keep that chumra if i accepted an invitation to eat at someones house who heated up such food (in a way that is legitimately muttar, even a daas yachid). I may not accept an invitation from them again in the future, but once i did so, my personal chumra is no excuse to disregard the proper kavod i must show to my host. similarly, i would not likely keep my chumra in a situation where for whatever only food with liquid is available for my own shabbos meal. perhaps I wou;ld not eat it myself, but my chumra cannot be an excuse to tell my wife and children to eat a cold lunch when a warm one is available al pi hadin.

    #801105
    call me frum
    Member

    RSRH does that stand for Rabbi Samson Raphoel Hirsh?

    #801106
    adorable
    Participant

    yes it does.

    #801108
    yic
    Member

    yungerman1.kdoshim tiyh is talking about aroyis and about this sure and sure how many more chumris the batter all gdoli yisroel didnt grow up only with kdusha but plan chumris is the tiri zahv in hilches shabiss saying hamachmir mafriz al midosf

    #801109
    deiyezooger
    Member

    A machmir also needs to be carefull that his chumrah should not lead to other kulas like someone I know who didn’t want to take his medication passover because it was kitnios (an issur drabanan which dosen’t apply to a cholah even if it is determent not to be life threatening) and ended up in causing Hatzulah to take him to the hospital (many issurei deoyreisos).

    #801110
    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    I second gavra.

    #801111
    RSRH
    Member

    call me frum: Yes it does; despite his having died over 120 years ago, still in many ways, my rebbe, mashgiach, and role model. I try to exemplify his timeless teaching, as best as I understand them, in my life, both in the real and CR worlds.

    #801112
    Hacham
    Member
    #801113
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Seems to me like some people are confusing “chumra” with “syag”.

    #801114
    netazar
    Participant

    yic: what is “hamchmer mfris al miedosf”? Could you write it out in full or in hebrew?

    #801115
    yic
    Member

    if you wane test a machmir then check how he is to other pepole if he is good to other guy’s then its real if he is bad then is the whole thing b.s cause most times a bad guy is bad to every one included him self

    #801116
    WIY
    Member

    I haven’t met many people who are Buki-im in the 4 chelkei shulchon aruch and keep Halacha 100% that they are ready to take on chmros . If you keep the Torah by adhering fully to the 4 Chelkei Shulchon Aruch you are a Tzaddik in my book!

    #801118
    yungerman1
    Participant

    yic- The Ramban disagrees with Rashi and says it is not talking about arayos, its referring to abstaining from permitted things. (I did say there are other pshatim)

    See what R’ Frand writes (from Torah.org)

    “…The Chasam Sofer points out that whether we accept Rashi’s interpretation or the Ramban’s approach, the message of this mitzvah is one of abstinence. One could perhaps erroneously come to the conclusion that the only way to achieve this level of sanctity would be to lock oneself on the top of a mountain in a monastery. One could think that one should ideally have nothing to do with people; one should not get married and have nothing to do with the opposite gender at all. The Torah therefore makes clear that the “holiness” of a monk is not desirable. This section was specifically delivered “b’hakhel”. Everyone was present – the men, the women, and the children.

    One must be a Kadosh [a holy person], but one must be a Kadosh in the context of the congregation and the community. One must get married and one must raise children. One must play with his kids and spend time with his family and be a part of the community. The Torah wants the holiness of complete human beings.

    The Kotzker Rebbe used to stress “MEN of holiness you shall be to Me” [Shmos 22:30]. “G-d is not looking for more angels.” The Torah was not given to angels [Brachos 25b]. It was given to human beings who have wants and desires and are social animals. In that context we are commanded to develop holiness.

    Therefore, specifically Kedoshim Tihiyu, of all mitzvos, was relayed in a mass public gathering to emphasize that despite our obligation to achieve holiness through a certain degree of abstinence it must be in the context of the community, together with one’s wife, one’s children, and one’s neighbors. “

    #801119
    ootinny
    Member

    WIY I am one of those people

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