Dor Yeshorim in Girls High School

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Dor Yeshorim in Girls High School

Viewing 50 posts - 51 through 100 (of 108 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1157941

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes, I am an anesthesiologist, and have put in more epidurals than I have drunk bottles of beer.

    #1157942

    I love how nobody is even bothering to argue with popas ridiculous post abt childbirth. lol just wait till he watches his own wife in labor. I know lots of husbands who are in tears watching their wives suffer

    #1157943

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I love how nobody is even bothering to argue with popas ridiculous post abt childbirth. lol just wait till he watches his own wife in labor. I know lots of husbands who are in tears watching their wives suffer

    And I love how you said that, but then couldn’t hold yourself back from arguing anyway.

    #1157944

    cinderella
    Member

    “If men gave birth, they would do it at work and then continue working”

    Ha! When men get even a tiny headache, they moan, take 5 Advil and go on bedrest. Contrary to popular man beliefs, women are the stronger sex.

    #1157945

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Cinderella: You’ll notice who is the stronger sex in this thread. There is no thread entitled “DY coming to yeshiva, batten down the hatches!”

    #1157946

    Health
    Participant

    cinderella -“Ha! When men get even a tiny headache, they moan, take 5 Advil and go on bedrest. Contrary to popular man beliefs, women are the stronger sex.”

    As a med prof, I empathize with women during childbirth because it’s painful; even though I know of a Tzaddekes that doesn’t get any pain.

    But your statement is far off the mark. I was once training as a student and a woman working who was my teacher got a migraine. She had all her other fellow workers crawling all over her like she was having a brain tumor. And mind you – almost every other pt. in the hospital ER was more serious than she was. Then she took the rest of the day off. She isn’t a nurse and neither am I. I’ve never seen a guy take off in such a situation. Esp. that she was able to give herself any drug she wants. Totally -the weaker gender!

    #1157947

    SaysMe
    Member

    my brothers class in junior high just had hep shots in school. Only 6 kids in the grade took it in school.in my grade, one girl made a scene and the rest of us made the usual fuss then laughed at ourselves after.

    #1157948

    Health
    Participant

    cinderella -“take 5 Advil and go on bedrest.”

    If anyone takes 5 they will end up in bedrest at the nearest ER.

    #1157949

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Hi Health.

    Hope you had a nice Shabbos.

    I have to go with cinderella on this one.

    While men are usually stronger in muscle, women are stronger and able to endure in the other ways.

    I would also have to say your statement that childbirth is painful, is an understatement.

    Being a man, I can only imagine the kind of pain women have to submit to during childbirth. It looks to be pretty insane, and I am not sure any man has something to compare other than if they stuck their finger in an electrical outlet, and kept it there a few hours, to say the least. lol

    And while the example you give is no doubt true and valid, it cannot serve as a paradigm to prove that it is generally regarded that women are not only smarter, but they are stronger than men in many ways.

    #1157950

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes, I am an anesthesiologist, and have put in more epidurals than I have drunk bottles of beer.

    That is weird. I am also an anesthesiologist, but I drink a bottle of beer every time I am working. So I have drunk exactly as many bottles of beer as I have done procedures.

    Plus, I drank 2 bottles at each of my 3 sons’ sholom zochor, so I have drank (all procedures)+6 beers.

    I never work on fast days, so don’t even go there.

    #1157951

    Health
    Participant

    BT -“Being a man, I can only imagine the kind of pain women have to submit to during childbirth. It looks to be pretty insane, and I am not sure any man has something to compare other than if they stuck their finger in an electrical outlet, and kept it there a few hours, to say the least. lol”

    Wrong they say kidney stones are similar -some say more, some say less. B’H, I haven’t given birth or had kidney stones.

    “And while the example you give is no doubt true and valid, it cannot serve as a paradigm to prove that it is generally regarded that women are not only smarter, but they are stronger than men in many ways.”

    This here sounds like you are trying to score some brownie points. This isn’t a Date.

    I obviously think you’re wrong. How many women do you know that deal with bugs or mice/rats when they are indoors? Or do they scream -stand on chairs -and call for a man to deal with it?!?!

    #1157953

    SaysMe
    Member

    If there are no men home, most women will deal with it themselves. With rats and mice, men just call the exterminator! 🙂

    #1157954

    yentingyenta
    Participant

    butting in.

    re kidney stones, my prof who had them say they are worse than labor. but her husband barely had any pain when he had them

    re bugs, mice, etc, BIG DEAL. I’ve had to deal with mice stuck on mouse traps, went to camp in the mts for 8 years and had to deal with bugs, frogs, and all other lovely stuff up there. the prob is fixed but last winter i was on my bed when i saw a mouse run from 1 corner to the other. and no i didn’t shreak bloody murder. i went and got a mouse trap along the wall. oh and I’ve dissected dead animals. good times 🙂

    re pain,personally, to be out of commission, the pain has to be higher than a 8 out of 10 for me to declare defeat. and I’ve had pain where 800 mg Motrin every 6 hours only brought the pain down to a 4/10.and i have to keep going on with my day. then again i have friends who stay in bed for pain 3/10. each woman is different in how they react to pain so its not fair to say 1 sex is more tolerant of pain than the other

    #1157955

    “That is weird. I am also an anesthesiologist,”

    popa: talking to yourself?

    #1157956

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Yeah, popa, mod 80 is out of commisssion. No excuse for that anymore.

    #1157957

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    yenting: How do you measure the x/10? Maybe each person is using a different x to report the same thing.

    #1157958

    yentingyenta
    Participant

    PBA,

    thats the limitation of using a pain scale. each person experiences pain differently. the way it works is tell the patient “on a scale of 0-10, 0 being no pain and 10 being the worst pain you have ever experienced in your life, how would you rate your pain at this moment?” when using it for myself, an 8/10 means im in bed, curled in a ball (or the position that is least painful) crying in pain. (does not usually progress that far as i take motrin before it gets that bad. B”H it does not reach that level often)

    does this answer your question?

    #1157959

    hudi
    Participant

    Health – I am more comfortable using a butterfly for blood draws. I am fairly new on the job and this works best for me. I guess this means I am incompetent. I would rather use a butterfly than torture my patients with a needle and vacutainer. So, until I gain competence, I will continue using a butterfly. I hope you are ok with that. Everyone has to start somewhere!

    #1157960

    Health
    Participant

    SaysMe -“If there are no men home, most women will deal with it themselves.”

    Nope, they call a male neighbor or relative.

    “With rats and mice, men just call the exterminator!”

    Nope again, I went out to buy poison and put it down. Lots of people can’t afford exterminators.

    #1157961

    Health
    Participant

    Yenta -“re bugs, mice, etc, BIG DEAL. I’ve had to deal with mice stuck on mouse traps, went to camp in the mts for 8 years and had to deal with bugs, frogs, and all other lovely stuff up there. the prob is fixed but last winter i was on my bed when i saw a mouse run from 1 corner to the other. and no i didn’t shreak bloody murder. i went and got a mouse trap along the wall. oh and I’ve dissected dead animals. good times :)”

    And let’s say the mouse was walking next to you in the room -would you climb a chair & shriek?

    “so its not fair to say 1 sex is more tolerant of pain than the other”

    Of course it is. How many women get incapacitated around the same time of month, every month?

    There is such a thing as an Amazon woman, but this ain’t the avg.!

    #1157962

    oomis
    Participant

    One scenario, two outcomes:

    Man gets a head cold. He takes to his bed for a week and lets his wife wait on him hand and foot, as he moans in misery and sips hot tea and chicken soup that she brings him, and holds his hot water bottle.

    His wife catches the same cold from him a few days later. He advises her to make sure to wash the dishes in hot soapy water, because “The steam will help clear your sinuses.”

    #1157963

    Health
    Participant

    hudi -“Health – I am more comfortable using a butterfly for blood draws. I am fairly new on the job and this works best for me. I guess this means I am incompetent.”

    Nothing to be proud of.

    “I would rather use a butterfly than torture my patients with a needle and vacutainer. So, until I gain competence, I will continue using a butterfly. I hope you are ok with that. Everyone has to start somewhere!”

    You should have learnt both in school. Medicine is Not supposed to be OJT (On the Job Training). It might not even be your fault, but the fault of your instructors. And you should have never been hired until they observed all your techniques. It is Not proper to only use a butterfly, no matter how many people do it!

    Btw, what is your profession or degree in?

    #1157964

    Health
    Participant

    oomis1105 – The kind of woman I was married to expected to be waited on hand and foot when she was ill, but when I was ill -I was basically ignored or told heal thyself -you’re in the medical field.

    #1157965

    SaysMe
    Member

    Health- maybe the females you know are just the shrieking type, because you expect it from them and for you to be their ‘savior’.

    I don’t know any women who have called a male neighbor to ‘save’ them. I do know many who have bought poison or traps to put down. And I know of some men who were grossed out by the dead critters and argued which should do it, until the females did it themselves :).

    Don’t stereotype all women! Not any who would not climb on a chair and shriek (I can’t even imagine myself shrieking about a mouse, though perhaps being grossed out about cockroaches) are “Amazon women”

    #1157966

    just me
    Participant

    This is a view from the other side of the needle. Many years ago, I worked for DY drawing blood from HS girls. In one school, the principal was very on top of it making sure there weren’t too many girls in the room at one time. If any girls started getting hysterical, he calmed things down right away. It was a pleasure. The other tech and I got things done quickly and efficiently. In an different school, they stuck us in a room about the size of a closet. There were no teachers or authority figures around. The girls started getting hysterical and before long they were dropping like flies. Rabbi Ecstien, the head of DY tried to keep order but couldn’t do it.

    In general, it isn’t a big deal. IF the patient cooperates and doesn’t squirm, it usually doesn’t take long and isn’t painful. When a few vials are taken, it looks like a lot, but it really isn’t more than 2 tablespoons.

    #1157967

    Health
    Participant

    SaysMe -“Don’t stereotype all women!”

    Not all, just most. I think I read an excerpt from DF from her book “Unorthodox” that she describes when she was in high school – she got up on her chair & screamed “mouse” and e/o followed without even seeing a mouse. So this freaking out about small animals is Not my imagination!

    #1157968

    SaysMe
    Member

    get a boy to try it in his classroom, then you can compare!

    We had a loose hamster in high school. There were some girls with feet up, some chasing it, and most unfazed watching in amusement.

    btw, would you accept a story from a book as proof of more than one particular case?? 🙂 (joke)

    #1157969

    “I obviously think you’re wrong. How many women do you know that deal with bugs or mice/rats when they are indoors? Or do they scream -stand on chairs -and call for a man to deal with it?!?!”

    Personally, I don’t care about mice or rats (what is scary about them?), but I have a huge insect phobia. So in E”Y, before I got married (when I was living alone), when I had roaches in the house a couple of times I managed to kill them on my own, being completely terrified. Killed them by using tons of insect spray (that STINKS) and drowning them in soap (much better but doesn’t always work for them).

    Then, I always had to go out and find a neighbor to help me get rid of it. I cannot touch anything like that in any way, so if one got stuck somewhere where it would be impossible to remove it without lifting it up (once, for example, I had one killed in the sink) I had to get someone to help me. Can’t do it even using 30 layers of kitchen paper or anything like that.

    Guess who came to my rescue…. the neighbor’s 12-year old daughter.

    Nowadays I have my wife to take care of such things, if they should ever happen again. But we also have 3 cats, even better. Ever since the first cat joined the household, we never again suffered any trouble.

    #1157970

    yentingyenta
    Participant

    Hi health

    And if the mouse came that close I would kick it. Screaming won’t solve the problem.

    And pain I mentioned above? I get that every month. I could either stay in bed or I can get over it. Life doesn’t stop because I’m doubled over in pain. Does it take me a little longer to get stuff done and am I more quiet? Yes because my mental energy is elsewhere. But I have school and house duties that must be done. And besides, I’d rather be in pain but distracted than home in bed focused on a pain that’s not going anywhere for a couple of days.

    I still think it’s unfair to say one sex is more tolerant. Isn’t it lookEd down upon for men to show emotions and perhaps men just hide pain better? Women express feelings alittle more easily. Would it be fair to say asians have less pain because they are more stoic and are taught showing pain is a negative? It’s all in how the person tolerates pain, not based on gender

    #1157971

    Health
    Participant

    Yenta -“And if the mouse came that close I would kick it. Screaming won’t solve the problem.”

    You are one of the few. (Tomboy perhaps?) Most would yell, scream & run.

    “And pain I mentioned above? I get that every month. I could either stay in bed or I can get over it. Life doesn’t stop because I’m doubled over in pain. Does it take me a little longer to get stuff done and am I more quiet? Yes because my mental energy is elsewhere. But I have school and house duties that must be done. And besides, I’d rather be in pain but distracted than home in bed focused on a pain that’s not going anywhere for a couple of days.”

    As a nursing student you should know about medical options to deal with this.

    “I still think it’s unfair to say one sex is more tolerant.”

    Unfair -what does this mean? Who decides this? And even if “unfair”, it’s still true!

    “Isn’t it lookEd down upon for men to show emotions and perhaps men just hide pain better?”

    I never hide my emotions and I definitely don’t hide my pain. Can’t speak for others.

    “Women express feelings alittle more easily.”

    And they tend to exaggerate more easily too.

    “Would it be fair to say asians have less pain because they are more stoic and are taught showing pain is a negative?”

    I’m not Asian.

    “It’s all in how the person tolerates pain, not based on gender”

    But the female gender mostly can’t tolerate pain, as opposed to most males!

    #1157972

    Health, are you and PBA related? As twins, for example?

    sorry, sometimes it feels like it. 🙂

    #1157973

    Health
    Participant

    TCG – I wish I did know one of his personalities in real life.

    In one of his personalities -he is a single man. In another he is married with older girls. I’d like to know this personality because I’d like to get remarried and maybe he could give me a daughter of his.

    #1157975

    yentingyenta
    Participant

    Health, I’m fully aware of my options and have discussed them with my pcp.

    And I’m the furthest from a tomboy. I’m actually more on the girly side

    #1157976

    Nechomah
    Participant

    Nu, how’d it go?

    #1157977

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    The wisdom of popa has permeated yet another mystery. It is clesr to me that childbirth is like doing dor yesharim. I too donated a pint of blood and then after being told not to excersise I went to my brothers home to move around his furniture.

    #1157978

    cinderella
    Member

    Health, first of all ,a migraine is way worse than a regular headache. Also, your mice example is totally irrelevant. I’m taking about pain. I admit, I have a massive phobia of spiders and anything else with more than 4 legs, but thats fear, not pain.

    But take a woman for example. Every sngle month, we go through 3-5 days of cramps and headaches. During pregnancy, a woman is naseaus, in pain… And that’s for 9 months. Then, at the end of that, she has to push a baby out of her.

    Now, lets look at a man. At 8 days old, he is circumcised. But that doesn’t count because you don’t remember it and it only happens once. And then, let me see… oh right. I believe that’s it.

    So women are entitled to moan a little bit once a month. Men are not. Well, they a but that just makes them wimps. Suck it up, and be a man. Actually, I vote we change that to “Be a woman.”

    #1157979

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    But take a woman for example. Every sngle month, we go through 3-5 days of cramps and headaches. During pregnancy, a woman is naseaus, in pain… And that’s for 9 months. Then, at the end of that, she has to push a baby out of her.

    Now, lets look at a man. At 8 days old, he is circumcised. But that doesn’t count because you don’t remember it and it only happens once. And then, let me see… oh right. I believe that’s it.

    So women are entitled to moan a little bit once a month. Men are not. Well, they a but that just makes them wimps. Suck it up, and be a man. Actually, I vote we change that to “Be a woman.”

    Considering that it was women who got us kicked out of gan eden, i don’t have much sympathy.

    #1157980

    cinderella
    Member

    I’m not looking for sympathy. Just agreement.

    #1157982

    Health
    Participant

    cinderella -“Health, first of all ,a migraine is way worse than a regular headache.”

    You’re right, even though I’m in the medical field -I don’t know the difference. And btw, I get migraines! The first day of that rotation in that ER, I was sick as a dog. I think I even had fever. One African Amer. nurse saw how bad I looked and told me where to get some drinks. I was about to collapse from dehydration. B’H those drinks helped me. Noone else cared.

    “Also, your mice example is totally irrelevant. I’m taking about pain. I admit, I have a massive phobia of spiders and anything else with more than 4 legs, but thats fear, not pain.”

    It’s totally relevant. I was showing the difference between men & women!

    “But take a woman for example. Every sngle month, we go through 3-5 days of cramps and headaches.”

    Some have it worse than others & there is medical help for the bad cases.

    “During pregnancy, a woman is naseaus, in pain… And that’s for 9 months. Then, at the end of that, she has to push a baby out of her.”

    Noone is nauseous or/and in pain for most of the pregnancy, unless there is underlying pathology.

    “Now, lets look at a man. And then, let me see… oh right. I believe that’s it.”

    You’re right again. Men never get conditions like gallstones, kidney stones or any other condition that causes pain.

    “So women are entitled to moan a little bit once a month. Men are not.”

    So who decided women are entitled? I guess a woman?

    To paraphrase a song -“Who died and made you Queen?”

    “Well, they a but that just makes them wimps. Suck it up, and be a man.”

    And who decided that if men complain that they are wimps? A woman?

    “Actually, I vote we change that to “Be a woman.”

    Women aren’t allowed to vote acc. to Rav Herzog Ztl.!

    #1157983

    cinderella
    Member

    “there is medical help for the bad cases.”

    So then according to your logic, anyone getting sick is no big deal because you can just pump yourself with painkillers.

    “Noone is nauseous or/and in pain for most of the pregnancy, unless there is underlying pathology.”

    But you cannot deny that there is a moderate level of discomfort. And a good amount of nausea and pain. For 9 months.

    “You’re right again. Men never get conditions like gallstones, kidney stones or any other condition that causes pain.”

    1) Women get this too. So just add this onto the female pain list.

    2) Men don’t get these conditions every month. Neither do they have them for 9 months straight.

    “So who decided women are entitled? I guess a woman?”

    So you disagree?? Also, I don’t get your point.

    “And who decided that if men complain that they are wimps? A woman?”

    Yeah, but that’s irrelevant because a headache is a headache for males and females. You don’t see us complaining every time we get a headache or cramps or whatever. (see yentingyentas post)

    And as to your coworker who went home because of a migraine. So? Just because women handle pain easier than men doesn’t mean they can’t sometimes complain and break down. The same way that sometimes, some men are able to hold back from making everyone around them serve them on hand and foot whenever they have a toothache.

    #1157984

    Health
    Participant

    cinderella-

    “If the shoe fits…” – wear it & if it’s too tight wear it anyway, & complain to e/o about it!

    “So then according to your logic, anyone getting sick is no big deal because you can just pump yourself with painkillers.”

    Some things just have to be SPELLED OUT -If there is Medical Help for the Problem (Monthly Pain) then you wouldn’t get the Pain in the First Place. The Medical Help I was talking about Wasn’t To Take Painkillers!

    “But you cannot deny that there is a moderate level of discomfort. And a good amount of nausea and pain. For 9 months.”

    No there isn’t! Most of the time women are just fine. This doesn’t mean that they don’t feel body changes, just they don’t feel sick most of the time! How many kids do you have?

    “1) Women get this too. So just add this onto the female pain list.”

    So therefore? What’s your point?

    “2) Men don’t get these conditions every month. Neither do they have them for 9 months straight.”

    And again, neither do Most women!

    “So you disagree?? Also, I don’t get your point.”

    Exactly -I disagree! Women are Not Entitled to Moan & Groan for every little Pain!

    “Yeah, but that’s irrelevant because a headache is a headache for males and females. You don’t see us complaining every time we get a headache or cramps or whatever.”

    Yes, I do!

    “And as to your coworker who went home because of a migraine. So?”

    An example of how Most Women handle Pain!

    “Just because women handle pain easier than men doesn’t mean they can’t sometimes complain and break down.”

    Well I disagree. I think Men handle Pain easier!

    “The same way that sometimes, some men are able to hold back from making everyone around them serve them on hand and foot whenever they have a toothache.”

    This is News to me -I don’t know any guy who makes e/o around them serve them hand & foot when they have a toothache!

    #1157985

    Rochelle
    Member

    To all those cute men that say that childbirth is soo simple; I challenge you to go through it just once. Let me know how it goes..

    Regarding women Pushing you out of Gan eden, I believe Adam had a choice too.

    #1157986

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    To all those cute men that say that childbirth is soo simple; I challenge you to go through it just once. Let me know how it goes..

    Can you elaborate on that?

    #1157987

    Nechomah
    Participant

    PBA, no need for us to elaborate. I honestly think that for a man to sit there and spout off about childbearing and childbirth and whether or not it is painful, uncomfortable or anything else descriptive about it, other than to say that his wife was the most beautiful when she was pregnant with his child, is a total chutzpah. It is not anything that you can relate to, since you weren’t created to do it (I’ll not speak about the Pregnant Man). I was once two weeks after my due date, carrying a 9 pound plus baby, and my Rov had the ______ to tell me that I had no patience. I’m sure he has no idea how much resentment I still have to this day (the child is 14 years + now), especially since my husband uses his words like a loaded gun to this day. Until you stand in someone else’s shoes, do not judge them – and definitely don’t give your opinion about what it’s like in those shoes either.

    #1157988

    cinderella
    Member

    Health, I really do have a good answer/comeback to your above points, but we aren’t going to get anywhere and I don’t have the time nor the patience. So lets just agree to disagree.

    (But I will tell you to reread your last post. Alot of your points were kinda pointless.)

    #1157989

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Nechomah:

    I had thought you were suggesting that I do experience it, as you said: I challenge you to go through it just once. Let me know how it goes... I didn’t know how else to read that statement.

    You are instead saying that I should not speculate about something I cannot experience. I agree with you on that, that my ability to understand is limited on something which I have never experienced.

    But, my (partially in jest) point was that it is very easy for women to claim it is so bad, since they know we cannot possibly dispute it, being unable to experience it.

    And I was pointing out that among experiences that men are able to experience, you will find women insisting it is very hard, while men say it is a joke. Like doing the Dor Yeshorim test, for instance.

    That’s all. If you want to be indignant, that was probably my purpose anyway.

    #1157990

    chill bro
    Member

    If women were created by Hashem to withstand the pain of childbirth… how can they possibly brag about their pain thresholds? Their bodies were made with childbirth in mind, it’s not an unnatural pain.

    #1157991

    Nechomah
    Participant

    PBA, I know that was your purpose, but I do think that no one can possibly judge how another person feels/experiences even things that the person himself has “experienced”. Two people are sick with the same virus, but each person experiences it differently, based on their personality as well as their physical makeup and strength. They can’t even compare notes since it’s like two different viruses. That’s what I mean “don’t judge a person until you stand in his shoes” – meaning to mean to experience a situation as if he were experiencing it because you are standing in his place. It’s totally not possible, even if you could, but since men can’t have babies, then we’re just talking circles.

    By the way, I wasn’t the one who suggested you try having babies, cinderella was, but I didn’t take offense.

    And yes, I do think that there are people, actually of both sexes, who will milk any situation for what it’s worth, and a pregnant woman will certainly raise her husband’s sympathies in untold ways since 1. he “caused” her situation, 2. it is “his” baby she is carrying, 3. he can’t do it instead, and probably most importantly, 4. GUILT.

    I actually loved being pregnant and wish I could do it again, but I’d be afraid to at my age. That’s not to say that I didn’t complain when things bothered me. Yes, I had some nausea. Yes, the last few weeks were very tiring and difficult, but considering that all of my babies were big (I had a 10 lb. 14 oz. baby that I delivered without an operation) that’s not so surprising. Yes, I was happy to finally deliver them healthily into this world. But even with all of the aches and pains of bearing and birthing my children, I think the experience of being pregnant and the feeling of closeness to Hashem that it gave me while he created my baby inside of me was the most amazing experience and I would wish it on anybody who could safely do it.

    #1157992

    cinderella
    Member

    Umm Nechomah, I never suggested Popa should have children. Rochelle did.

    Chill Bro- Keep in mind that when Hashem created women, childbirth was intended to be a painless process. It was only after the sin of Chava that Hashem cursed women with the pains of pregnancy and labor.

    Which just proves that having children is a painful process, the pain was and remains a curse. That doesn’t mean it’s not a beautiful thing. We women are very lucky to be blessed with the ability to bear children.

    #1157993

    Whoah this is NOT what I had in mind for this post. Us teens are getting a great education here:)

Viewing 50 posts - 51 through 100 (of 108 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.