Double Wrapping Pesach Food In Chometz Oven

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  • #608671

    rebdoniel
    Member

    Does double wrapping work for Pesah food cooked in a nonkosher oven where hametz was cooked within 24 hours?

    #939727

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Don’t know the halacha, but barring life or death issues, it wouldn’t happen in my kitchen.

    #939728

    achosid
    Participant

    Wow! great question.

    Ask your Rabbi.

    Once your there, ask him all the rest of your halacha questions, and leave them out of this place.

    #939729

    cherrybim
    Participant

    Do you think that airlines have a special kosher oven for frum travelers? The most stringent hashgachos rely on the double wrap.

    #939730

    playtime
    Member

    Great question. Mishna Berura talkes about it:

    ???? ????? ??? ??”? ???? ? ?”? ?”?

    #939731

    musser zoger
    Participant

    achosid – Once your there, ask him all the rest of your halacha questions, and leave them out of this place.

    Right on! Halachic discussions have no place on Yeshiva World.

    #939732

    rebdoniel
    Member

    That MB would indicate reicha milta hi is a concern for hametz. Would double wrapping be effective? (I would think so)

    #939733

    playtime
    Member

    The MB is saying that even in the view of those who say

    ‘Reicha milta hi’ – (aroma is a concern regarding year-round kashrus – in yoreh de’yah)

    Even they agree that when you double-wrap, reicha is not an issue to begin with. Not year round (yoreh de’yah), nor on Pesach.

    (This was prevalent way back when there was only a shared community oven)

    #939734

    rebdoniel
    Member

    Thank you.

    I didn’t have the chance to look inside the MB.

    Granted, most rishonim hold reicha lav milta, like Levi from Pesahim 76b.

    I will be double wrapping when I am outside the home, then.

    #939735

    playtime
    Member

    rebdoniel- “I didn’t have the chance to look inside the MB”

    yes you did.

    But ask your Rav. On Pesach maybe a different story. 🙂

    musser zoger- “Halachic discussions have no place on Yeshiva World”

    Halachic discussions have every place on yeshiva world.

    musser zuggen 101

    #939736

    daniela
    Member

    What is wrong with koshering properly your guest’s oven, heating kosher food for both of you, and then after you leave, the oven remains kosher at least for a while?

    #939737

    rebdoniel
    Member

    No, I didn’t look inside the MB. I was recalling it from memory.

    You could also run the oven on self-clean as a means of kashering.

    #939738

    147
    Participant

    Maybe rebdoniel is contemplating for purposes of feeding his family in the days leading up to Pesach in a house already Kosher l’Pesach when one is surely not bound by all the extra Chumros of Pesach.

    #939739

    playtime
    Member

    whatever

    #939740

    rebdoniel
    Member

    I’m referring to that (heating up hametz double wrapped in my Ppesah oven) and I want to visit someone not Jewish over Pesah and be able to heat up some kugel in their oven. I cannot see how double wrapping would be insufficient (certainly with yoreh deah issues, most rishonim hold like Levi and say you don’t have to be concerned)

    #939741

    ari-free
    Participant

    talmud wrote: “Halachic discussions have every place on yeshiva world.”

    True but going according to them is not.

    #939742

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Double wrapping helps lekatchilah. The wrapping keeps out any reicha or zeiah. The outside wrapper becomes chametz, the bliaos from outside wrapper can’t travel to inner wrapper without a liquid medium. That is the purpose of double wrapper.

    #939743

    yaakov doe
    Participant

    Reb Doniel – Whioch one of the annonymous coffee room, poskim do you hold by?

    #939744

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    It would be hard to find one Baalhabasta ( Jewish Torahdik housewife) to allow it……….. even if you find seforim permitting.

    #939745

    Sam2
    Participant

    Rabbaim: Well, that was a gross insult to whomever you just calles Baalhabastas. I think they’re okay with following Halachah, you know.

    #939746

    Ver Bin Ich
    Member

    Just make sure to have your non Jewish friend turn on the oven so you avoid any potential basar b’chalav cooking shaylos. That is, if there are meat and milk drippings in the oven and you turn it on you have a problem of cooking milk and meat together.

    Also, I don’t know of any balabustah who would allow it, but I also don’t know of any who would have eaten on pesach in their grandmothers’ kitchens. Where food was prepared for pesach for weeks in advance in the regular chometz kitchen. All they did was roll back the tablecloth and designate the area for pesach. I don’t think any balabustas today would dream of doing that, and yet that is not a problem. Neither is not baking chometz in your pesach oven.

    Remember, on Pesach even a mah shehu is not batul, whereas year-round the issur is butail with 1/60.

    #939747

    rebdoniel
    Member

    Many Sephardim do rely on the entire understanding of chozer ve neor (I do not, even though I refuse to condemn those who follow the Mehaber and his reading of the Rosh).

    Many rely on the fact that you can use the same oven for meat and milk (in accordance with the gemara Pesahim 76, and the shita of rov rishonim and the Aruch haShulchan).

    #939748

    daniela
    Member

    I think your question is really two questions:

    -a Jew wishes to heat his kosher food in his nonjewish friend’s oven

    -we wish to heat chometz in an oven which is already KLP and are trying to avoid having to kosher it all over again.

    In the first situation, I would clean the oven and then do self-clean cycle or set at max heat for a while (never had a nonjew or nonobservant jew make unpleasant comments, of course I always offered to share the food), but I am aware of many leniences (even beyond what was posted). The leniences come from the difficult reality of our ancestors, who sometimes used the local baker’s oven to cook.

    The second is a little bit different, because the oven is yours.

    Personally, I am aware that we have to observe Pesach for eight days only and no more – that’s where beer and whisky and restaurants come handy :-))

    Ver Bin Ich, I am quite sure our grandmothers and grandfathers themselves would not eat in their own kitchen. It was not easy life, I am sure they would tell us we should realize how blessed we are, not being forced to rely on certain leniences.

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