- This topic has 18 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 1 month ago by .
-
Posts
-
In reading about the controversy and banning 6 books by Dr Seuss. I saw the following:
From CNN today:Dr. Seuss had a long history of publishing racist and anti-Semitic work, spanning back to the 1920s when he was a student at Dartmouth College…
___
Incidentally, he was of German decent and he himself also suffered intolerance in wartime.
I wouldn’t attach much if any significance to CNN. They have long since given up on reporting news in favor of making up politically correct stories and catering to the “cancel culture” mob. The mere fact the one watches CNN for news suggests an inability to distinguish fiction from reality.
If anything he was fairly left-wing. His works show a strong opposition to anti-Semitism and racism, and he was unusually willing to include non-European looking people at a time when “all white” was the standard, and discussing racism and anti-Semitism was liable to get you blacklisted.
The YWN article on the decision of the Seuss publisher to discontinue certain books did not report on the language and contexts that the publisher recognized as offensive. I read an additional report about the matter, and that report sited the portions of the books that the publisher deemed objectionable. I suggest everyone get more information before jumping to conclusions about the wisdom, or lack of wisdom, of the Seuss publisher.
Dr. Suess was a German-American. In his youth, through college, he did exhibit racism and antisemitism in his writings. By the time WWII arrived, he was writing political cartoons, and they expressed strong condemnation of racism and antisemitism. On the other hand, they were virulently anti-Asian. This was the prevailing sentiment at the time, given that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. A decade later, he expressed remorse for this, and wrote “Horton Hears a Who” – not only dedicated to a Japanese friend after a trip to Japan, but with content that delivered a message of inclusiveness of all people – to make amends for his earlier views.
Not so incidentally, the “Mulberry Street” book is being banned due to a line that refers to a “Chinaman eating a bowl of rice with sticks”. The accompanying illustration depicts said Chinaman eating said bowl with chopsticks and – horrors! – slanted lines for eyes. This is clearly hurtful to all people of Chinese descent who, true, have epicanthic folds and eat rice with stucks, but this is due to no fault of their own.
Anyway, the original version referred to a “Yellow-faced Chinaman” – with a picture of a yellow-faced Chinaman – which is clearly not a compliment. A few years later the yellow face was edited out of both text and color. But we are now wiser and realize that Dr. Suess was still an insensitive soul.ok, so Dr Seuss going the way of Huck Finn, etc. Given that most of “classics” will have some outdated thought, most of it is already or will be denied.
I do not have a CAT in this fight, but it seems that the real question is – what do they use instead?
Most likely, some socialist and ethnic literature, further contributing to “dumbing down of America”I would mind less, if they go to Aristotle or Plato instead of Dr Seuss, though.
First off, Dr. Seuss isn’t cancelled. His publisher and family simply decided to take six of his older books off the shelves because they contain depictions of people as racial stereotypes. For comparison, if a popular children’s book from the 1930s talked about a visitor from Jerusalem and showed a hooked nosed bearded hunchback counting money, we would all be screaming for the book to be pulled from the shelves.
Ysernius,
Your comparison is off. Your example is a DEROGATORY, INNACURATE racial stereotype. These in question are NON-DEROGATORY, ACCURATE stereotypes.
A better comparison would be a popular children’s book from the 1930s talked about a visitor from Jerusalem showing a full-bearded, curly-sidelocked, fur-hatted, long-frocked man engaged in an old book.@mobico Did you see the pictures of Africans in If I Ran the Zoo?
To the Mods about mobico’s comment of 3/4/21 at 9:36 am: Maybe you should not allow the posting of a comment by someone who thinks “non-derogatory sereotype” is a real thing.
And, on an unrelated note, could you consider numbering all comments, so that we can easily reference them. Some of us bigmouths make more than one comment on a single article or thread, e.g., me. And maybe “bigmouth” is the wrong word, since we do not make our comments with our mouths. Maybe “bigfingers” is more accurate.
Here’s another typical statement: A stereotypical BJJ girl would make a perfect Shidduch for a stereotypical Brisker Bochur. Anyone insulted?
Yserbius: Yes, I have. Have you ever seen pictures of actual grass skirt wearing African tribe members? I respect them as much as I do any of Hashem’s creations, which is quite a bit. But how does that make depicting them as they are derogatory?
huju: Here is an official definition of stereotype: “A conventional or formulaic conception or image”. Note that “negative” is nowhere in the definition. The following statement is true: Jews stereotypically learn Talmud, pray three times a day, and eat herring. Is it insulting?Yserbius – Yes, I have. Have you seen pictures of grass-skirt-wearing African tribesmen? It is a fairly accurate representation. I have as much respect for them as any other Goy – that of a Tzelem Elokim. Why is it insulting to represent them as they are?
huju: Here is an unbiased definition of stereotype (from a dictionary that has not been following this conversation): “A conventional or formulaic conception or image”. Note that “negatve” is nowhere to be found. For example, here is a good use of the word – “Jews stereotypically learn Talmud, pray three times a day, and eat herring”.To mobico, re post of 3/4/21, 12:10 pm: First of all, there are no “official” definitions of English words. There are lots of dictionaries, but none of them are “official.”
Second of all, “stereotype” in most contexts carries a negative implication.
Jews do not stereotypically study Talmud, any more than they are stereotypically liberal, or stereotypically smart, or stereotypically love money. I am liberal and love herring, for your information.
As for BJJ girls and Brisker Bochurim, ask them if they like being called stereotypical.
>Maybe you should not allow the posting of a comment by someone who thinks “non-derogatory sereotype” is a real thing.<
>First of all, there are no “official” definitions of English words. There are lots of dictionaries, but none of them are “official.”<
Contradiction?
Reb huju,
IMHO, there is a big difference between “most uses of stereotyping are negative” and “ban a post because it states that a stereotype could possibly be unharmful”.
I differ – if Jews do not stereotypically study Talmud, then who does? And what do they do? Surely you have heard of “People of the Book”? If I had written “Torah”, would you have agreed?
Your typical BJJ girl and Brisker would be thrilled to be called strereotypical. They typically went to these institutions, difficult to get in to and considered to be the top of their “industries”, because they positively identify with the mission and goal. They are proud to bear the title and reputation of a student of their school. Hence my point.
And since we’re sharing, I happen to be conservative. But we have much in common, as I also love herring!
Not only was Geisel virulently anti-Nazi he was a huge opponent of the American isolationist enablers. His cartoons of the time were particularly bitter towards Charles Lindbergh, essentially portraying Lindbergh as a Nazi tool, which he certainly was, if he wasn’t an actual Nazi himself, which is likely.
On the other hand there were no more vile racist caricatures or Japanese people than those by Geisel.
If the Vice President who is African American was offended when she was a senator why would she say happy birthday to him and that she enjoys reading his books?
Dr Seuss and other gedolim of English anbd History are being taken out for a reason:
to make space for new programming. Public school programs add new diversified program into schools.As Dr. Seuss is for younger kids, that means that even elementary school is under attack. Expect new generation of AOC-like people growing up.
ISIS used a similar strategy in Syria and Iraq: several years they were allowed to run a quasi-country, they were taking young kids into their schools, teaching them a terrorist curriculum, and in 2-3 years they matured into well-trained young terrorists.
@charliehall Said vile racist caricatures were pretty standard at the time, just open up any Time-Life from the 1950s. It’s hard to say that his were the worst. Dr. Seuss recognized them for what they were and moved away from racial stereotypes in his art by the 60s.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.