June 4, 2015 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #615789
I had a dream this week. I won’t bore you with the graphic details. During this vivid experience, I made an announcement to three of my friends (who apparently were in the crisis together with me) – that I would learn Daf HaYomi Kesuvos, starting the following day. I made a Neder to complete it, Gemara, Rashi & Tosfos.
Disclaimer – I have asked my Local Orthodox Rabbi, who hasn’t responded yet; he has to look it up.
What do I do now?
(And learning Kesuvos at the moment is not an option; I am in the middle of Gittin and have no spare time to do Gemara Rashi Tosfos Kesuvos!!)June 4, 2015 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #1085875
It’s funny that you asked your question now. See R’ Yitzchak Zilberstein on this weeks Parasha: someone had a dream Rosh Hashanah night where his recently deceased father appeared to him, and told him that before he had died he had a sum of money that belonged to someone and he had not paid it back. He told his son where it was located in the house, and who he should return it to. The son checked the place where the father said, and lo and behold it was there.
Still R’ Yitzchak ruled that he didn’t need to give it back as the Gemara says that ‘divrei chalomos ainan malim oi moridin’ (see Sanhedrin 30a, amongst other places), in other words a dream cannot engender a halachic consequence.
Based on this gemara the Shulchan Aruch in Y.D. 255,9 rules that one does not have to comply with things heard in a dream, however convincing they may be.
Listen to your rabbi, but R’ Yaakov Hillel shilta told me that today it is very very difficult to take into account what we see in dreams.
HatzlochoJune 4, 2015 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #1085876Little FroggieParticipant
How could you learn Daf Yom Kesuvos a week ago? They were on to Nedarim.
Oh, according to some Rishonim (IN NEDARIM!!) it’s a good idea to follow throuugh in your case, or have real Hataras Nedarim.June 4, 2015 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #1085877
I had a dream earlier this week that I made a commitment to wearing R”T tefillin (which I have been thinking of anyways in real life). After that statement in the dream, a chashuv looking Rabbi kissed me warmly.June 4, 2015 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #1085878
@Little Froggie: Which Rishonim? And are they bought lehalacha? Rishonim say lots of things we don’t necessarily pasken like!
@MDG: Interesting! Are you going to keep the commitment? And don’t be fooled by “choshuv looking”!
@Aprager: Wow, what a coincidence! I think I once heard a ??”? ???”? who says that you do have to take dreams into account (at least for Nezirus and Nedarim), but I haven’t looked for it and I don’t know if we pasken like that.
R’ Yaakov Hillel may not have been talking about Halachah; he could well have been talking about other disturbing things one can see in a dream.June 4, 2015 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #1085879
Maybe you mean the Rashba 1,483??
AYLOR what he makes of the Shulchan Aruch I cited, if there’s room for ‘lifnim m’shuras hadin’ here.June 4, 2015 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #1085880
255,9? I checked that on Hebrew Books, and it doesn’t seem relevant.June 4, 2015 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1085881
My LOR sent a message with somebody to me that I should do Hataras Nedarim in front of 10 people. He said it’s a Machloikes Rosh and Rashba, and according to the Rashba I should do it.June 4, 2015 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1085882ToiParticipant
If i remember correctly its a machlokes lihalachah the rosh and another rishon if you have to listen to your neder.June 4, 2015 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1085883
@Aprage: “It’s funny that you asked your question now.”
Actually, the coincidence runs deeper. My dream was on Sunday night. Monday’s Daf in the Daf HaYomi cycle is actually Nedarim 8, which discusses exactly this Shailah (well, not exactly this, but the basis for the halachic ruling in this discussion is based on the Rishonim there).
Interesting!June 4, 2015 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #1085884Little FroggieParticipant
bigben2 – That’s exactly what I was referring to!!!June 5, 2015 12:29 am at 12:29 am #1085886
“that I would learn Daf HaYomi Kesuvos, starting the following day. I made a Neder to complete it, Gemara, Rashi & Tosfos.”
If your neder was to do it with the Daf cycle, you have 7.4 years until Ketubot is finished.June 5, 2015 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1085887
255,9 is in Choshen Mishpat not YD, apologies.June 5, 2015 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #1085888
“@MDG: Interesting! Are you going to keep the commitment?”
I have not done anything in regards to that dream.
There are differences in sources of dreams. In my case, it was something that was on my mind, so having a dream about it is no Chiddush (see B’rachot, around daf 56, concerning the kings asking what they will see in a dream).
Whereas in the case of the recent Dam Yomi sugya in Nedarim, where a person has a dream of being in Cherem, that person should get out of cherem somehow (by getting 10 learners to absolve). That dream is considered sign from Shamayim. It seems to me that no one thinks about being in Cherem during the day and dreams about it at night. That’s why we can assume it’s min Hashamayim.
“And don’t be fooled by “choshuv looking”!”
I have a book on dream interpretation which says that the Shadim that bring “bad” dreams can sometimes come in the guise of tsaddikim. That way they befriend and help at first, so that they can lead astray later.
The way to hold off the Shadim is to say Sh’ma Yisrael and Baruch Shem every time you go to sleep. The passuk of “Biyadicha Afkeed…” also works (see B’rachot top 5a). If you wake up in the middle, you lose the Shemira, and you need to say them/it again to regain Shemira.June 5, 2015 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #1085889yeshivadanMember
who said daf yomi is gemara rashi tosfos? Just learn the gemara.June 5, 2015 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #1085890Lechayim120Member
One should follow one’s Rav’s advice, however, when we Mater Neder Erev Rosh Hashana, doesn’t it include those things that we may have committed to in a dream? I’m not sure, but I think it includes things that occurred during the past year and any things in that realm that may occur in the future.June 5, 2015 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #1085891dafbiyunParticipant
I actually discussed this issue during my daf yomi shiur on daf ches because it had a personal effect on me.
The Rashba does require hatarah for a neder b’chalom( and also requires charatah!). The Nemukai Yosef also holds this way and states that l’chatchila one should be matir before 10 but b’dieved 3 hedyotim is ok.
The Chasam Sofer states that these shitas only apply to where the dream was to accept a chumra. However, in “Shiuray R’ Shmuel” he disagrees and says its possible that the dream was a message from heaven that he should be mekabel the neder( similar to the malach and Shimshon’s mother) and applies to all dreams.
In any event ,as noted by others above, the halacha does not follow these shitas.
My personal story is this: 17 years ago( June 7) I made a neder during a dream that I would stop smoking. (Hardly surprising since I had been coughing a whole night before falling asleep.) When I awoke, I was about to check the halacha ( which I was pretty sure of) but decided that I would assume the halacha was l’chumra. I went out and bought niccorette gum, and the rest is history.June 6, 2015 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #1085892
dafbiyun – I like your story, and the initiative to “decide” on lchumra.
I had similar thoughts to you; I decided that it wouldn’t be so bad to try complete my Kabbalah, but I didn’t want it as a neder. The Shulchan Aruch seems to pasken like your R’ Shmuel, so I was Mattir bifnei asarah. Meanwhile, I have started Ksuvos Bli Neder.June 7, 2015 3:25 am at 3:25 am #1085893Sam2Participant
I don’t like dafbiyun’s story, though Yasher Koach on quitting smoking. (That’s not how Halachah works; we should never assume when we can actually learn what the right thing. To quote R’ Schachter (from another context), not learning the Halachah and just deciding to be Machmir is making a man-made religion. We have a God-given religion, that sometimes tells us to be Meikil and sometimes to be Machmir. Zil Gmor.)June 8, 2015 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #1085894dafbiyunParticipant
Sam- I think you misunderstood. I knew the halacha was l’kulah and I immediately confirmed that. However, I used the dream to play a “mind game” on myself . I had been trying to stop for many years and this trick worked. I guess I should have put the word “assumed” in quotes to indicate I basically pretended ( without any new kabbah) that my dream created a neder.June 8, 2015 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #1085895WolfishMusingsParticipant
Oh, according to some Rishonim (IN NEDARIM!!) it’s a good idea to follow throuugh in your case, or have real Hataras Nedarim.
I hope no one ever has a dream that they vowed to become a N’zir Shimshon….
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.