May 22, 2018 1:34 am at 1:34 am #1522907
Any advantage in having dual American-Israeli citizenship?May 22, 2018 8:15 am at 8:15 am #1523071
For someone living in Israel, I assume?
1. As citizen, you get thru passport control quicker on both ends.
2. Don’t need to apply for a visa to go to the US.
3. eligible for US child allowances, depending on income
4. can be eligible for college scholarships like Pell Grants. I know students in “seminars” who have gotten money to pay for their secular degrees that way.
Just be aware with 3,4 there have been a lot of cases of fraud- and there has been a crack-down to make sure claims are legitimate, not as easy as it used to be to qualify.
That’s about it that I can think of…
it’s offset by having to apply and pay for 2 sets of passports if flying between US and Israel, having to file/pay taxes in both countries (even if exempt from actually paying, there is still the pain of the paperwork, FACTAs, hiring an accountant, possibility of being audited by IRS, dealing with the banks who make you fill out all these forms, etc)
And of course, if you want to be an MK, you’d have to give up your American citizenship.May 22, 2018 8:16 am at 8:16 am #1523072
No, you’re better off keeping your American citizenship and not acquiring or accepting Israeli citizenship even if you move to Eretz Yisroel. This will help you and your children avoid any heartache regarding the Israeli military draft, as a non-citizen won’t be drafted.May 22, 2018 8:16 am at 8:16 am #1523073
You can visit the US without a visa (there is a bill pending to add Israel to the list of countries with waivers).
If you are otherwise eligible you can collect Social Security while living in Israel (into either an American or Israeli account).
You can vote in both countries’ elections.
Some jobs are reserved for citizens.
Disadvantage: you will be required to report income (if you receive more than the mean amount for reporting)and assets (if they total at least $10K) to the IRS although a bill is pending in the Congress to change to residency-based taxation.May 22, 2018 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1523076american_yerushalmiParticipant
If you live in the U.S. there’s no advantage. If you move to Israel there are advantages.May 22, 2018 10:04 am at 10:04 am #1523125
1. If they are born in Israel they will be citizens even if their parents are not.
2. It is a great mitzva to serve in the IDF.May 22, 2018 10:35 am at 10:35 am #1523431Shopping613 🌠Participant
1. There is no mitzvah to serve in the IDF.
2. It makes life a lot easier, you are more integrated in the country’s system if you make aliyah, leaving less headache for schooling, health care, etc that are more complicated when you aren’t a citizenMay 22, 2018 10:49 am at 10:49 am #1523433
Obviously American citizenship is a good idea regardless I’m not disputing that. But to be an American living in America is there any advantage to having an Israeli passport? From what I understand it’s nothing but problems to possess one. First of all there is a new policy which requires you to renew it every 5 years not 10 like it used to be so now it’s an extra 80-100 dollars expense every few years for something you don’t use much. And if you don’t renew it for more than 10 years it’s a bigger issue. Secondly renting a car in Israel you will have to pay extra taxes If you go in with Israeli passport rather than just as an American tourist which is difficult to do when they see you have an israeli passport as well in their system.
Army can be less of an issue if you only have American citizenship and living in America or even Israel.
You might owe “bituach leumi” in Israel for having an Israeli passport and these mixups happen a lot especially if you stay there for extended time.
Maybe an advantage would be receiving medical insurance if you plan to be there for a year?
Anyways it’s just much easier to have one passport and maintaining it rather than having another unnecessary one.
Only thing I could think of is in case of emergency that one needs to flee the United States, would it help to be a citizen of another country (Israel)? Whether it’s some small crime, taxes, or chas veShalom anti semitism?
Although from cases I’ve read about the U.S puts a travel restriction on those who have Israeli citizenship if they are awaiting court or something. It’s been claimed as controversial and anti semitic since I think it only applies to Israeli dual citizens. Maybe because Israel would accept someone fleeing the U.S in order to avoid jail? So would it even help to have an Israeli passport as a backup plan in that case?May 22, 2018 10:50 am at 10:50 am #1523437
@shopping- you can always obtain Israeli citizenship whenever you’d like in the future. They will gladly give you a passport so you might as well save that opportunity for when you actually want to make Aliyah with all the benefits. Already having an Israeli passport might make you ineligible for such benefits or make it much more difficult. Benefits such as nefesh benefesh, or even going on a birthright trip.May 22, 2018 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #1523555
1. It is a mitzva to serve in the IDF as all of our wars are milchemot mitzva . See THE HAREIDIM AND THE MITZVAH TO SERVE IN THE I.D.F by Rav Eliezer Melamed (online).
2. American courts have suspended passports of American Jews even if they do not have Israeli passports as they are eligible for immediate citizenship under the Law of Return.May 22, 2018 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #1523562☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
1. We don’t pasken that way.May 22, 2018 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #1523652
Israeli Citizens can visit Russia without a Visa, Americans need a Visa (Especially noteworthy since Aeroflot has cheap airfares to Israel, but American are not allowed to leave the airport without a Visa, Israelis can.
At least 2 famous people tried to flee US courts and make Aliyah , Meyer Lansky and Crazy Eddie Antar. Both were shipped back to the US for prosecution. Meyer Lansky was aquitted and Crazy Eddie Antar went to JailMay 22, 2018 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1523806
Avi, “If they are born in Israel they will be citizens even if their parents are not.”
That’s inaccurate as a non-citizen visitor to Israel who gives birth there does not receive Israeli citizenship for her newborn child.May 22, 2018 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1523832
“Israeli Citizens can visit Russia without a Visa, Americans need a Visa”
-Bummer ; )
Regarding your second point, they were shipped back due to the political cooperation of Israel and America relationship? If so then why would the American courts suspend passports?
Also if they suspend an American passport but you have an Israeli passport, cant you just use that one to leave USA or do you need to leave with the American? There must be a loophole isnt there? I mean also if a person is a citizen of another country (Israel) and flees to that country, shouldnt their rights be protected and be allowed to stay? Is this only due to political reasons that Israel would give away one of their citizens back to another country? If so it is really bias since many celebrities fled to other countries in order to avoid being prosecuted for huge tax evasions. How were they not grounded in USA? How did Edward Snowden manage to escape to Russia and seek asylum? If this is only against Jews then its pretty frightening.
Were there cases when dual citizens managed to flee to Israel and stay? Would they only be caught if their names were put into the system in time and only at the airport or would Israel conduct an active search to find you?May 22, 2018 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1523868
And it can be a big deal about visiting Russia. If someone is flying Aeroflot (very common Because of the cheap flares) and misses a connection, Americans cannot leave the airport to go to a hotel (with one exception) to spend the night (And that hotel you are almost treated like a prisoner as you cannot leave your room or the hotel, its in a special zone) Israelis can go to a normal hotel to restMay 22, 2018 4:51 pm at 4:51 pm #1523943
Get Russian citizenship instead of Israeli citizenship and you’ll have a much easier time entering Russia, if that’s your goal.May 22, 2018 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #1523980
Get Russian citizenship instead of Israeli citizenship and you’ll have a much easier time entering Russia, if that’s your goal.
Especially if you want to get someone elected presidentMay 22, 2018 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #1524011
Why is visiting Russia of such importance in contrast to the actual point of USA-Israeli citizenship?May 23, 2018 12:33 am at 12:33 am #1524056akupermaParticipant
If you are living in Eretz Yisrael, holding on to a foreign passport is a way of stating that you really aren’t sure about staying in Israel, and need to have a place to flee if the country collapses or if the medinah survives but becomes fanatically anti-religious. There are some inconveniences in holding on to a foreign passport (and a lot of tax issues particularly for Americans), but the bottom line is that if the medinah is driven into the sea, the leading priority in all but one country in that region, you won’t be a stateless refugee.May 23, 2018 1:27 am at 1:27 am #1524096
Regarding allowing criminals to stay, there is currently a dispute over the guy who sent threats to JCCs in the US. Israel claims that the crimes were committed here and therefor triable here and the US claims that they were committed there.May 23, 2018 1:28 am at 1:28 am #1524095
Lit, an American citizen must leave with his American passport. I presume that there is a computer match to the Social Security number. Snowden left before being discovered. As for Israel, extraditing residents to the US, that door swings both ways (although Israel has conditions like no death penalty and right to serve sentence in Israel). The Tzitz Eliezer discusses the halachic rationale for allowing it in Torat haMedina (while Rav Shaul Yisraeli disagreed it could be that the service of sentence in Israel clause did not exist then).
Joseph, if they are not at least legal residents they all have to leave periodically when their visas expire.
Akuperma, that is a spy attitude.May 23, 2018 1:53 am at 1:53 am #1524099
One can always renounce their Israeli citizenship.May 23, 2018 7:42 am at 7:42 am #1524105
1. status of children of non-citizens who were born in Israel – I know of American kollel couples who had children born while they were in Israel on student visas. Their kids would have become Israelli citizens, to avoid that they had to go down to the misrad hapnim and deny/forgo citizenship.
2. Being a citizen does not equal having a passport. One can have citizenship and never apply for a passport, as long as one does not have to travel in/out of the country.
3. There is no advantage to getting Israeli citizenship if one lives in the US. As LC said, you technically have to pay bituach leumi even while in Chul, which would be a problem if you would then move to Israel and apply for medical coverage- you would owe all that back bituach leumi. Trips to Israel will be more complicated if you are a male above 18 who is eligible for the draft. Also, if you do want to make Aliya, you may not qualify for certain benefits as a Toshav Chozer vs a new Oleh. As far as expenses, tourists can get VAT back at the airport for some purchases, Israelis can’t. But hotels charge more for tourists than they do for locals. There used to be 2 price lists in some places- I am not sure if that was actually legal. If G-d forbid one had to flee the US and wanted to take refuge in Israel, the Law of Return would guarantee you would be able to move to Israel even if you did not previously have citizenship/passport, as long as you can prove you’re Jewish.
4. The new Israeli biometric passport is still valid for 10 years for adults (5 years for kids) unless you don’t agree to save your fingerprints in the database. Adult passport costs as little as $45 if you pay online during the winter months, if you pay in the local misrad hapnim it is around $75. So it’s way cheaper than a US passport (renewal $110/adult, first time $145). Don’t know how much it costs to renew it from outside of Israel.May 23, 2018 7:42 am at 7:42 am #1524106NechomahParticipant
Just a side note to the comment about getting benefits when making aliya. It is not true that all people who make aliya get benefits. if you live in the country for too long (like the children born in Israel to non-Israeli citizens who make aliya later on in life) are not entitled to most of the benefit package that you get when making aliya. Contact an aliya specialist (like Nefesh B’Nefesh) before making plans based on assuming you will be getting benefits.May 23, 2018 7:45 am at 7:45 am #1524110reb mutcheParticipant
As an American living in Eretz Yisroel, here are my comments to what you wrote:
First of all there is a new policy which requires you to renew it every 5 years not 10 like it used to be so now it’s an extra 80-100 dollars expense every few years for something you don’t use much. Not true. An adult passport is valid for 10 years. A childs passport is valid for only 5 years.
Secondly renting a car in Israel you will have to pay extra taxes If you go in with Israeli passport rather than just as an American tourist which is difficult to do when they see you have an israeli passport as well in their system. Not true. If you live in Israel, you will need an Israeli Driver’s License since you will not be on a turist visa but on a student visa or permanent resident.
You might owe “bituach leumi” in Israel for having an Israeli passport and these mix-ups happen a lot especially if you stay there for extended time. True, but you also have medical insurance, child allowance, and other benefits.
Anyways it’s just much easier to have one passport and maintaining it rather than having another unnecessary one. Why? There are people that have 2 cars or a summer home, and are fine maintaining more than one?May 23, 2018 9:22 am at 9:22 am #1524121
Avoiding the draft (and dealing with the draft bureaucracy) is a huge benefit for not having Israeli citizenship.May 23, 2018 10:26 am at 10:26 am #1524189
Mutche- check their website again, the new law is they issue adult passports for 5 years only and then needs to be renewed.
Secondly as an Israeli you have to pay more taxes on renting a vehicle. I am referring to visiting Israel. If you only have an American you save yourself the extra tax I forgot which one it is.
By maintaining passports I meant having to renew every certain amount of years meaning trips to consul and mailing aside for paying unnecessary fees for something you don’t really need(Israeli) or which actually causes problems.
Especially with the Israeli laws constantly being made up on the spot at their convenience.
I’m applying all this to an American citizen living in US. Obviously living in israel an Israeli citizenship/passport has benefits. And even if citizenship doesn’t require a passport, you most likely will travel sooner or later. Besides I think if you make Aliyah they require you to get an Israeli passport.May 23, 2018 10:26 am at 10:26 am #1524194
Winnie, you do not have to pay Bituach Leumi while in Chul if you have actually changed residency. One who is making an extended trip can exempt himself by notifying them that he is leaving for an indeterminate time. of course, when he returns he will not be covered for that period.
Joseph, an even bigger benefit is enlisting and doing a great mitzva.May 23, 2018 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #1524505
Avi, I am not an expert on bituach leumi, all I know is what I have heard from people who have left who have had issues. I think if they get an exemption, then when they come back to Israel there is a significant waiting period until bituach leumi kicks in again and they can sign up for kupa- something that could be an issue for many people, especially those with small children who spend lots of time at doctors.
LC, not sure what site you are looking at, but both in Hebrew and in English, the Population Authority of the MIsrad HPnim’s website states that adult passports are valid for 10 years unless you don’t let them save your fingerprints.May 23, 2018 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1524591Uncle BenParticipant
An even bigger mitzvah may be safeguarding one’s ruchniyos by not enlisting. The Rav you quote is clearly a daas yochid. None of the recognized Gedolei Yisroel hold like that.
I heard from a son of Rav Boruch Kaplan z”l (husband of the famous mechaneches Reb. Vichna Kaplan) that his father related how he witnessed as a talmid in Chevron Yeshiva in the 1920’s, Zionist activists provoking the Arab population which led to the infamous riots of 1929. The point is that mostly secular Zionists instigated and eventually established the state. Therefore it is their obligation to protect it, not to force everyone to do so. To proclaim it a “milchemes mitzva” which was deemed by Neviim is preposterous.
Additionally since the holocaust tens of thousands of Jews have perished in wars and terror attacks in Israel R”l. How many have perished elsewhere? I am not a supporter of neturei karta or even the Satmar shita rather I’m an Agudist and just trying to put this in perspective.May 23, 2018 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1524804
Winnie, I once had to leave for what turned out to only be a few months. I did not owe anything on the period when I was abroad. I was billed much later and they tried to impose a late penalty but I argued with the clerk and she cancelled it.
1. Serving IS one’s ruchniut.
2. On the contrary, the Zionists offered to send armed men to guard the yeshivot but they refused saying that they had an good relations with the local Arab leaders. The only “provocation” was refusing to sign away the Kotel (both Rav Kook and Rav Sonnenfeld steadfastly refused despite British pressure).
3. The state is the state of all Jews. If you do not think that one Jew has the obligation to protect another if he can then there is a tremendous hole in your chinuch.
4. Rav Ovadia also said that Israel’s wars are milchemot mitzva. He also said that without the IDF there would be no yeshivot.
5. FYI, only 20-22,000 have been killed since 5708. Who is to say what would have happened to them if they had had to stay in Europe and Arab countries? As we say here ,every bullet has an address. Once someone drove wearing a helmet and bullet-proof vest. The bullet struck in the tiny space between them. On the other hand, once Arabs fired over thirty shots at a girl waiting at a hitchhiking station from the other side of the highway. She was only lightly grazed and was released from the hospital the same day.
If not for the state of Israel there would have been mass conversion. Xtian missionaries were using the Holocaust as proof that Hashem rejected us c”v. They even accosted Rav Soloveichik during his travels between Boston and NY. If there had been a state twenty years earlier there would not have been a Holocaust.May 23, 2018 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1525209
Winnie this is what I found on embassies (dot)gov.il
Please note that due to the Biometric Database Law, the Consulate may only issue regular passports and extend passports for up to 5 years. At this time, biometric passports may only be issued in Israel.
A regular passport for an adult is valid for 5 years from the date of issue. A passport cannot be extended beyond 5 years from the issue date.May 24, 2018 7:53 am at 7:53 am #1525411
LC, so we’re both right- I was referring to passports issued in Israel, you were referring to those issued by embassies outside of Israel. Apparently the embassies do not have the ability to issue the biometric passport. Note that it’s relatively new, so it could be eventually the database technology would be available in embassies as well, and they would be able to issue them?May 24, 2018 7:53 am at 7:53 am #1525404reb mutcheParticipant
As an American living in Eretz Yisroel, here are my comments to what you wrote:
As I wrote. An adult passport is valid for 10 years. A childs passport is valid for only 5 years. See form DS-82.
Yes, I was refering to an American in Israel when I commented.May 24, 2018 7:53 am at 7:53 am #1525402aporush82Participant
I’m an American with both parents having Israeli citizenship and one parent currently lives there.
Would me only having an American passport when I travel to Israel for a month in the summer cause any problems? Visas, draft…?May 26, 2018 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #1526397
For Visa not at all. I think they sometimes stamp you a 3 month visa which is probably not at all a problem to extend aside for their foolish fees.
Draft- were you sent a letter for joining army? If you live in America its usually not a problem to visit Israel. If you plan to move there its different. But even visiting can sometimes be a hassle (Israelis love giving a hard time)so best is just to get a “ptor” from the consul stating you live in US.May 26, 2018 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1526398
Btw how does the Israeli Biometric Passport differ from the New USA Biometric Passport which is coming out. Does anyone know when it is coming out? I heard sometime this year. Are these passports safe or leave a person even more vulnerable to having their info hacked and spread everywhere?May 27, 2018 12:41 am at 12:41 am #1526424
Lit, you now have to come to Israel to ask forgiveness from each on of us for your hotzaaat shem ra.May 27, 2018 3:24 am at 3:24 am #1526438
uh ya Avi K Im pretty sure i dont.
Its a known fact that many israeli government offices are hard headed, so not sure what you were referring to. I have many friends who have had to deal with them and I myself once almost missed an elal flight coming back to ny since the israeli “supervisor” decided to charge me $300 for 7lbs overweight or not get on the flight. Obviously I didnt pay the bizarre fee of $300 and had to make a scene in order to get on the flight (thats their way of communicating). Of course he tried taking advantage since I am American and he thought i was a “fraier” as the israelis call it. So maybe come to ny and ask each and every one of us mechilla for falsely accusing someone.May 27, 2018 8:04 am at 8:04 am #1526462
1. You branded all Israelis.
2. Before I made aliya I went to an aliya convention where a speaker commented that Israelis say the same thing about the American bureaucracy . An Israeli in the audience jumped up and said “It’s worse”. If you want an airplane story (just out of curiosity, i presume that your luggage was overweight and that you meant seven kilograms as no one outside the US uses pounds – Air France charges €75-€250 per bag, Lufthansa charges €100-€200 if oversized €50-€300 if overweight and Qatar Airways charges $25-$55 per kg online and
$30-$70 at airport), about fifteen years ago an Israeli couple came to NY on vacation. The baggage inspector found a picture of the Ben Ish Hai and decided that it was a picture of Bin Laden ym”s. The couple were detained for thirteen hours, interrogated and sent back to Israel.May 27, 2018 9:49 am at 9:49 am #1526487🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Avi – in regard to the luggage, by 7lbs overweight I am assuming he meant an additional seven pounds beyond the limit, not 7 total. And in American airports they talk pounds. I can tell you he is probably right about that story because I had the same thing happen to my daughter. we were told an extra suitcase would be $125. When her luggage was found to be 10 lbs over the limit they told us it would cost us $250 . I told them I am not paying $250 and that if I have to pay anything I will pay $125 and get an extra suitcase. They insisted that it would cost me $250 either way, and went on to insist that the agent must have been looking at a domestic screen or some shopping site because its $250. they would not let her take that luggage until we stuffed it into an additional suitcase and paid $250 in cash – as they told us they don’t take credit cards either.May 27, 2018 12:28 pm at 12:28 pm #1526550
1. I obviously meant seven overweight.
2. You had an extra suitcase plus overweight?
3. You should have done due diligence yourself. In any case, as I posted some airlines charge even more.May 27, 2018 12:54 pm at 12:54 pm #1526585🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
avi – you ask but then assume. We absolutely did our due diligence, which is why I knew the prices. We didn’t end up needed an extra suitcase nor were they overweight. Although I have never heard of an issue previously, they decided her carryon was too heavy. They wanted her to take everything out and we were able to move it to her suitcase but that brought it to about 3 or 4 pounds overweight. they insisted we then pay an “overweight fee” or pay for another suitcase. I don’t find them to be so inflexible when it isn’t seminary girls or yeshiva bachurim.May 27, 2018 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #1526607
Going out of New Yorks JFK there is almost never an issue. Ive had some overweight and they usually dont care and if they do you can easily persuade them to let it through (long distance flights). This is never the case in Israel. A few extra pounds equate to $200-$300 are you serious? Even if you are late for your flight and the last one to board they will just not let it go. In NY it usually works to your advantage to be the last one at the counter they usually just take your bags and get you on the flight as fast as they can, no time for games. Many times they’ll even check in your carry on so you dont need the shlep it on the plane. Im not saying you should always be late just generally speaking.
Its especially annoying when israelis try to charge you up to space on extra weight and then when you get on the flight you see that its half empty. Is that the definition of hard time or what?
It just ruins your whole trip and flight back while you leave Israel remembering that last ugly experience and the rudeness you had to deal with. What a shame.May 28, 2018 6:44 am at 6:44 am #1526778
Syag, actually it is questionable if they have a halachic right to be flexible as it is not their airline.
1. See Why do airlines make a big deal out of single-piece baggage weight limits? on quora.com. See my previous post for the rates of different airlines, some of which are even higher.
2. So be late in NY and early in Israel.
3. I would like to hear their stories of rude customers who scream and yell about another &200-$300 on a trip for which they are paying thousands, especially when it’s their fault. I have been on both sides of the bureaucratic desk so I can tell you that there are always two sides. Maybe you should read one of the “dan b’kaf zechut” books.May 28, 2018 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #1526970
Avi, I know why airlines have weight limits, they claim safety issues. How dome then when you pay extra it suddenly becomes safe again to add more weight to the plane? I guess money IS magic.
Secondly I never said being early in Israel airport would make any difference. If they charge you when your last to board, for sure they would charge when there are still a lot of people to check in. I was jus pointing out that even when your flight is about to leave, they still hold you up and play games.
And I guess your right, when you already paying over 1000 dollars for a ticket, what’s anothr $300 to throw into the trash over nothing right?
Besides how does it make sense that extra 4 kilo or 8-10 lbs is $300 but a whole nother suitcase is half of that? Go figure.May 29, 2018 6:54 am at 6:54 am #1527829
1. You obviously did not read the article. The overweight charges are because of fuel costs (the heavier the plane the more fuel it uses).
2. There is a simple solution to your problem Do not bring overweight or extra luggage (and if you really need more stuff bring an extra if that is cheaper) . If you can’t so the time don’t do the crime.
3. Here are a few more money saving tips:
a. save exorbitant tuition costs and homeschool your kids
b. don’t buy your sons tefillin – let them use he shul’s loaner pairs (for that matter you can sell yours and also use the shul’s)
c. don’t buy a car – use public transportation
d. don’t buy a watch – ask others the timeMay 29, 2018 11:20 am at 11:20 am #1527902DovidBTParticipant
The overweight charges are because of fuel costs (the heavier the plane the more fuel it uses).
If your luggage is under-weight, do you get a refund?
Do fat people have to pay more?May 29, 2018 12:23 pm at 12:23 pm #1528100
Some airlines charge fat people for two seats.May 29, 2018 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #1528144
Good point Dovidbt.
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