July 20, 2020 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #1884116
What do I , layman, know?
But, if the early March/2020 ‘no need to wear mask’ from the top medical experts was as so not to cause mask-shortages for doctors/nurses, but did the wrong thing in not clearly enough differentiating between professional surgical masks intented for medical staff vs plain cloth-mask face-covering for anyone, yet, still , did not recommend cloth mask for all , while knowing it minimizes spread, then they share in fault, as most probably tenths of thousands of lives, could have been saved.July 20, 2020 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1884191
“while knowing it minimizes spread,”
Do you have evidence that they knew that asymptomatic people can spread it?July 20, 2020 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #1884197
A lot of mixed messaging in the US. Who would you suggest is supposed to be the great unifying voice?July 20, 2020 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #1884199jdf007Participant
When the world discussed the need for masks, at the same time the CDC said no. I didn’t trust them then, but I wanted to know why so I went on the CDC website, dug around the thousands of links until I found their bulletin. It gave me two reasons. A) I shouldn’t buy or wear a mask because I don’t know how to put it on. Many infectious disease hospitals in east asia have very good 1 minute videos about how to seal the mask. So that’s not an issue to me. But then, there’s the reason you said. B) The CDC says masks don’t work, but we should save and donate masks, or even fabric masks to doctors and nurses. I had no clue we hated doctors and nurses so much.
I tell everyone I meet its a big world out there, and since we’re on the internet, follow someone elses CDC where the virus isn’t running out of control as though we’re as helpless as a little Iran.July 20, 2020 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #1884223
To ubiquitin# 1884191:
This is why I put a question mark by title after: j’accuse… and in my post I said if.July 20, 2020 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1884225
Yuh I are right.
Well, it’s so sad that politics came into place, when we are dealing about saving lives.July 20, 2020 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1884270akupermaParticipant
Had they acknowledged that their model of the disease was wrong, they would have suggested that those at the highest risk (the elderly in particular) needed isolation and masks, and that was all that was needed. The model they relied on assumed that those diagnosed as “positive” was what normally happen if you were infected with Covid19, and half of those became seriously ill and 5% might die. Projected to the whole population, it would make Covid19 similar to smallpox or perhaps even “Black death”.
It turned out, and the evidence was there all along, that those identified from testing with only 5% of the actual cases, and 95% of the “victims” don’t get ill enough to worry about. This make Covid19 into a slightly more dangerous version of the “flu” that makes it rounds every winter, but hardly into something threatening the social or economic order. The junk science led to politicians doing horrific damage, including closing schools, wiping out people’s savings, destroying their jobs and in many countries causing mass starvation.
Trump was right when he though this wasn’t a serious problem. Covid19 isn’t much of a disease, but it triggered a massive and destructive panic. Covid19 won’t make it into the medical history book, but into the psychological history books as an example of what dumb people do when they panic.July 20, 2020 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1884283
An enhanced mutation of the flu is enough to warrant a shut down on any municipality it hits. Even in the event the politicians would not do it, it could still shut down whole states just from natural progression. Do you also deny that measles has been wreaking havoc across the globe. and that Ebola was within a hair of overtaking Africa twice this decade?July 20, 2020 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1884305
please stop lying
“his make Covid19 into a slightly more dangerous version of the “flu” that makes it rounds every winter”
so far 140,000 Americans died from Covid
That is more than double than a bad flu season.
double can hardly be called “slightly more” dangerous
“This is why I put a question mark by title after: j’accuse… and in my post I said if.”
Then skip the inflammatory language. It is ok not to know, just ask nicely.July 20, 2020 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #1884335danielaParticipant
It is very difficult to be in a public position. That said, it is true that masks help a little those who wear them, and help significantly their neighbors, but due to the fact this virus is very contagious, it would require “professional” respiratory protection basically for everyone. The problem is there were not available even for health professionals, who were not trained either, not fitted, etc. Anyway, since it was all over the news, hospital bought PPE in large numbers, and they became difficult to find even for workers who needed them. And that’s besides the fact some people see masks as an attack to their freedom and individuality, or whatever.
My family stayed as much as possible at home. We wore KN95 or above when we had to go out, reusing them according to CDC guidelines. We’ve had no symptoms, but we did not get tested either.July 20, 2020 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1884433
אין אדם נתפס בשעת צערו [ב”ב טז]
I know people who are niftar. And there needs to be an investigation. IMHO.July 20, 2020 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1884486
“I know people who are niftar.”
We all do.
That is no reason to throw reason out the windowJuly 20, 2020 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #1884501
There are also other issues to be discussed . Including Cuomo’s nursing home matter and Deblasio coming late as TheNewYorker reported. And maybe the prohibiting tablets inside. Isolation is devastating….July 24, 2020 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #1886356charliehallParticipant
By far the biggest issue was Trump refusing to allow testing, and actively obstructing the availability of needed medical equipment including PPE. (He did send PPE to China, though, back when he was effusive in his praise for Xi Jinping.) We STILL don’t have anywhere near adequate testing capacity and hospitals in Texas have had to set up death panels to decide who will be denied treatment. (No whining from Republicans about these death panels, maybe because the incompetent Governor of Texas is a Trumpie Republican.)July 29, 2020 9:33 am at 9:33 am #1887708BY1212Participant
Lockdowns, mask orders are all pointless.
Their purpose is to prevent spread of disease. They do no such thing.
Case in point comparison:
Sweden’s population is ~1.13 times the size of Israels.
Swwden did not impose any ridiculous rules on society.
Sweden’s infection rate is ~1.2 times (as of yesterday) that if Israel .
And day by day now that discrepancy is getting smaller and smaller. Why? Bc, as some weizmann institute (i.e. doron lancett) non brainwashed scholars have shown, the virus spreads in waves and there is nothing much that can be done about it. Sweden experienced it’s second wave in June and is now past it. Now it is Israels and other countries turn to have a wave.
Over 100 Israeli doctors have signed a letter to the govt. Telling them not to do a second lockdown bc it is pointless. They claimed to be of the same opinion the first go but we’re silenced.
More examples:. Jordan and Egypt and the p.a. – have actually much lower infection rates than Israel but I am not sure what kind of lockdown policies they have there although they are most probably less ridiculous than Israel’s.
So the lockdowns and mask mania just create misery for zilcho toeles.
Agav, the nejm in May stated that there is ZERO evidence that masks do anything. So fauci 1.0 was the better version before he became a little Napoleon and started getting his kicks controlling hundreds of millions people’s lives
The only question is why does Israel BH/poo poo poo have such a low death rate, not even remotely matched by any other country. (Except the pa who use Israel’s health system for their sick…)
1. Siyata d’shmaya
2. The best health Care system in the world bar none. Including an attitude toward life unparalleled any where in the world. Having seen the cattle car attitudes of NYC doctors and emergency rooms where people in tzaar are treated like annoyances, it is no surprise that the NY met area is responsible for half the deaths in the us. New York is a city of rotzchim. Life is worthless there. For all we know they are deliberately knocking off the old just to cut medical costs for bankrupt systems.
2. Israel has a very young population w over 50% being under 30.
3. The disgusting ‘nursing home’ culture if the United States where the elderly are gotten rid of in the most inhumane manner possible is almost non existent in Israel. Of course around the world half of the deaths have been in nursing homes which should not surprise anyone as factories produce what they are intended to produce. In Israel as well. Just in Israel there are not that many nursing homes
Last point:. These ridiculous lockdowns, school closings etc. are b’geder גזירה שאין הציבור יכולים לעמוד בהם.
As such they were not followed properly and did more harm than good esp. when you take into consideration that most people were infected by other family members which is why infection rates were so high in haredi areas.
Had there instead been גזירה which the tzibbur could follow: i.e. stay away from the vulnerable. It would have been taken seriously and the death rates would have been less than half of what they are today.
The stupid lockdowns, besides causing unnecessary misery and non kungflu deaths to millions also caused more kungflu death than would have occured wo them.
תפסת מרובה לא תפסת.
When you pretend to know have the answers to everything and are in control of everything more than Gd (the only attitude from which these idiotic lockdowns spawn) you usually make things worse.July 29, 2020 11:00 am at 11:00 am #1887806
“Pretend to know/have the answers”
How thoughtful! I came across this line, after reading a looong post that pretended exactly that.July 29, 2020 11:15 am at 11:15 am #1887824BY1212Participant
Nom so apparently your philosophy is: when you have nothing to answer a snarky personal attack is the way forward. NiceJuly 29, 2020 11:37 am at 11:37 am #18878322scentsParticipant
To summarize, Trump is bad, Cuomo is good. Decisions on the local level including within the local healthcare system and hospital decisions as well as PPE stock is all the federal government’s fault.
Got it.July 29, 2020 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #1887855
I confess I didnt read your whole post. I couldnt make it past your first point which was just to absurd not to reply too
“Case in point comparison:
Sweden’s population is ~1.13 times the size of Israels.
Sweden did not impose any ridiculous rules on society.
Sweden’s infection rate is ~1.2 times (as of yesterday) that if Israel .”
NO those were not the results.
Here are the results . what matters is deaths.
So lets compare … Sweden 55.99 deaths per 100k ppl
Israel 5.47 !
To suggest we should be more like Sweden is beyond astounding.
( I noticed you mention some comments as to why Israel had a low death rate this in no way chanegs the point that comparign to Sweden is beyond absurd)
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