September 27, 2012 1:26 am at 1:26 am #604986welldressed007Participant
Some people have said that if the pizza store makes the sukka on the sidewalk with no ???? from the city it is not legal al pi ???? to eat there. Any thoughtsSeptember 27, 2012 1:30 am at 1:30 am #897739sheinMember
They are incorrect.September 27, 2012 2:02 am at 2:02 am #897740Sam2Participant
Shein: Why? I’d have to review everything, but we hold that a Sukkah G’zulah is Passul. And since we hold Karkah Einah Nigzeles, that probably means that it’s Passul if you build a Sukkah somewhere that you don’t have permission to. What’s incorrect about what I just wrote?September 27, 2012 2:09 am at 2:09 am #897741welldressed007Participant
Sam, The Halacha supports you with one exception if the person eating does not have their own sukka yaish al mi lismoch. however at first glance one should be nizzur involving this inyan.September 27, 2012 2:09 am at 2:09 am #897742sheinMember
The “probably”.September 27, 2012 2:09 am at 2:09 am #897743popa_bar_abbaParticipant
sam: is the land part of the sukka?September 27, 2012 2:40 am at 2:40 am #897744zahavasdadParticipant
You are not allowed to put tables on the sidewalk without a permit. Some places have a succah in the back on their own private property, I dont think you need a permit for that.
And for those who think the permit is silly, what if a wind comes and blows down the succah on the sidewalk and someone gets hurt or property gets damaged. I know of a case where the succah blew down and damaged someones car so its not so far fetchedSeptember 27, 2012 3:44 am at 3:44 am #897745Sam2Participant
PBA: Yes, Rav Schachter proves from the Mishnayos about a Sukkah in an Aliyah that as a prerequisite for having a Sukkah you need 4 walls and a floor. (It was in his Shiur online on Inyanei Sukkah from last week, if you want to go back and listen to it.)
Shein: Fine, I apologize for faking humility on Motza’ei Yom Kippur and not using a more definitive statement and said “probably”. I’m sure of it. When I’m not sure I say so. I think I’ve been posting here long enough for you to realize that. When I say “probably” it means I’m sure I’m right. I’m sorry for using a Lashon that confused you.September 27, 2012 4:51 am at 4:51 am #897746MammeleParticipant
Wouldn’t the question be if the sidewalk actually belongs to the city or to the public? Is the public the same as the city?
Owners are required to shovel snow and clean up the sidewalk in front of their property, so it may be a bit ambiguous. Just asking, not sure either way.September 27, 2012 5:37 am at 5:37 am #897747sof davarMember
The Ramah in 637:3 seems to say that it is kosher b’dieved. However the Mishna Brura brings the Magen Avraham who says not to make a bracha on the sukkah. The Mishna Brura himself says that if you have no other sukkah you can make a bracha.
There may be another potential problem. if the sukkah is located in a public enough place that you would be afraid/unable to sleep there, the Ramah seems to say that you cannot use the sukkah at all. 640:4
Please do not rely on anything I have written as halacha l’ma’aseh.September 27, 2012 7:36 am at 7:36 am #897748HaLeiViParticipant
The floor is there to allow the Mechitzos. Gedi’im Bok’im ruins the Mechitza.
Aggadaicly, the floor fits right in, since the Succah is a Zecher to the Ananei Hakavod which were on six sides.
Over here the issue is more than using a stolen floor (which can’t be an issue because of Dal Ashteros Karnaim). The issue is the spot, which means the whole Chalal Hasuccah. On the other hand, being illegal to do something probably doesn’t translate into Gazul.September 27, 2012 8:14 am at 8:14 am #897749yaff80Participant
is eating in a pizza succa called ???? ???? ??????
(this discussion may be conncted to making ??????, cause according to some you are not ???? ????? when on the move)September 27, 2012 11:44 am at 11:44 am #897750ShuychusMember
en hochi nami the place may be of question but if someone asked me that that is what he did its zichur kosher ultz hilcos sukka
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