Eggs: chumra to treat then like fleishig

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  • #1709908

    Anyone keeping the chumra of treating eggs like fleishig (because they are produced by chicken)?

    Like not cooking or eating eggs with milchigs and waiting 6 hours after eggs before eating milchigs.

    #1709943

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Anyone keeping the chumra of treating eggs like fleishig (because they are produced by chicken)?

    No. I have eggs and cheese often.

    I have never observed this chumra, never heard of it, and have no intention of ever following it.

    Just another sign of my moral bankruptcy.

    The Wolf

    #1709952

    Keeping in mind that an egg inside a chicken is considered meat and part of the chicken. It requires soaking and salting like meat. Once the egg is laid, it’s status of meat is removed. It becomes it’s own entity…maybe a chumra to treat it like meat makes sense.

    Consider the fetus, while in mother is considered its own entity…

    #1709954

    Meno
    Participant

    I keep the chumra of treating milk as fleishig, since it is produced by the cow.

    #1709955

    Wolf, maybe you are machmir to be maykil.

    That too is a chura. To be makpid on keeping kulas.

    #1709966

    shrags
    Participant

    Then you cant eat honey. It would be not kosher. Of course that’s not true.

    #1709973

    Joseph
    Participant

    Chicken isn’t fleishigs, m’doraisa, it is pareve.

    #1709972

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Wolf, maybe you are machmir to be maykil.

    Not adopting a chumra (especially one I never heard of before today) does not being being maikil.

    Next you’re going to tell me that I’m being maikil because I allow electric lights to stay on in my house over Shabbos or because I eat gebrokts on Pesach.

    The Wolf

    #1709979

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Do you eat soft/hard boiled eggs?
    Maybe it had a blood drop (blitztrop) ?

    #1709980

    meno – milk indeed “would” be like meat, except the Torah specifically excluded milk to be considered meat by forbidding milk with meat. Indeed, the Chassam Sofer holds that milk is “really” meat (except in relation to meat), therefore one cannot eat milk with fish because milk = meat, it is the same sakana as eating meat with fish.

    #1709978

    Wolf, morally bankrupt would be to eat eggs with chicken. Eggs and cheese is muttar, unless you take on the new chumra I thought of, to treat eggs as meat…which makes sense. True eggs are not mamash eiver min haChai, but to say it is not like meat …

    #1709985

    Joseph – Chazal made chicken as fleishig as meat. See chullin 116a .

    #1709988

    YW Moderator-25
    Moderator

    Rebbitzen,

    I deleted your last comment.

    It’s a real shame that someone with such a good head can be such a jerk.

    #1709997

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    There goes my ביעותא בכותחא!

    #1709996

    shrags – “Then you cant eat honey. It would be not kosher.”

    Honey is different. The Gemara gives two reasons why honey is muttar (and not considered something that came from the be),

    The Gemara Bechoros 7b explains that honey is kosher since it is not an actual secretion of the bee; the bee functions only as a carrier and facilitator. Honey is kosher flower nectar, which enters the bee’s honey sac and is transformed into honey.

    The second opinion in the Gemara permits honey because of a g’zairas hakasuv, a deduction from a pasuk (Vayikra 11:21 Ach es zeh).

    Therefore, the halacha is that honey is kosher despite the fact that it comes from the non-kosher honeybee ( Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 81:8).

    These reasons would not apply to eggs (to differentiate them from being part of the chicken).

    #1709998

    Ziongate – “Do you eat soft/hard boiled eggs? Maybe it had a blood drop (blitztrop) ?”

    Indeed, if you open a hard or soft boiled egg and find a blood spot, it should be discarded (today’s eggs Reb Moshe paskened do not have “real” blood – b’dieved or b’hefsed meruba).

    The shayla is – how do you know the egg you are eating comes from a kosher chicken, the chicken might have been a treifa (broken limbs or sickness that renders it a treifa)? Are we somech on “rov” (majority) or a chazaka?

    A chicken which is a treifa (alive but won’t survive a year) that laid eggs, those eggs are not kosher.

    Yet, we ignore that possability!

    #1709999

    Yabia Omer
    Participant

    I don’t think anyone holds that eggs are basari. Is this another meshugas from our brothers from the north?

    #1710003

    Wolf, if you ever saw hand made matzos being made, gebrokts on Pesach is a HUGE kula these days. In olden days, as long as the dough was worked on, the 18-minutes did not begin, but today we are makpid on 18-minute matzos from start to finish.

    When the flour and water is mixed in the bowl to make dough, they spend a very short tie on the mixing. It is IMPOSSIBLE that every speck of flour was mixed with the water in such a short time.

    The speck of flour that remained, even a MASHAHU (a microscopic amount of flour) if at a later time comes in contact water, WILL become chometz and it is not botel.

    In today’s matza processing, gebrokts is a serious concern, more than in previous doros.

    #1710002

    YW Moderator-25,
    There are two applicable definitions of “jerK”, which one (or both) do you mean?
    Definition of jerk
    1a : an annoyingly stupid or foolish person
    was acting like a jerk
    b : an unlikable person
    especially : one who is cruel, rude, or small-minded
    a selfish jerk

    #1710015

    YW Moderator-25
    Moderator

    Cute

    #1710016

    Yabia Omar – “I don’t think anyone holds that eggs are basari. Is this another meshugas from our brothers from the north?” I was talking about a chumra, to treat eggs basari. But why do you think it is so poshut that eggs are not besari? Poskim speak why eggs are not eiven min ha’chai, but if the eggs have gidim (viens) attached, they are eiver min ha’chai, and have a full din of basari.

    Do you have a clear hetter for treating eggs as paraveh?

    #1710097

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    based on this mishagas every kosher store serving hot breakfasts would have to close down as they wont be able to serve eggs.

    #1710115

    iacisrmma, you might have missed the word “chumra” of treating eggs like fleishig . No need “every kosher store serving hot breakfasts would have to close down” for a “chumra”. Besides, even if you accept the “chumra”, no need to close down any kosher eatery, just don’t eat the eggs with milchigs (and wait 6 hours after eating them) , and you are fine.

    #1710119

    If you can’t explain something like why eggs shouldn’t be fleishig, do call the question “mishugas”?

    #1710174

    michaelbardaniel
    Participant

    Shulchan aruch is pretty clear in yore deah 87:5 that it’s muttar, are the 613 not enough for you. Besides, this would come under the prohibition of bal tosif. Shlomo hamelech writes in Koheles 7:16 אל תהי צדיק הרבה…למה תשומם starting with not touching the Eitz hadaas people have been destroying life ever since with chumras

    #1710181

    michaelbardaniel
    Participant

    I assume you mean well, but chumras can be dangerous. Starting with not touching the etz hadaas chumras have been destroying life ever since. The Shulchan Aruch is clear in Yoreh Deah 87:5, and making a chumra on this would be bal tosif, one of the 613. Another one would be ואהבת לרעך כמוך which you seem to be lax in your excitement for your chumra. Shlomo hamelech writes in Koheles 7:16 אל תהי צדיק הרבה…למה תשומם
    A tzadik follows the word of Hashem, and following chazal is an extension of that, לא תסור מדבריהם but a chumra (even if not bal tosif) is your own idea not the word of Hashem.

    #1710186

    Chazal gave specific reason why honey is muttar – even though it comes from bees (a sheretz), without the reason, honey we wouldn’t be allowed to eat it..

    Milk, the Torah specifically excludes it from being considered meat by forbidding us to eat/cook milk with meat. without that, it would be considered meat/fleishig/bsari.

    Eggs – where is the hetter to consider them paraveh? There is a heter for them not being eiver min haChai, but what hetter is there to consider them paraveh?

    Even if they are paraveh (as is the minhag of many Yidden), my query is :

    Anyone keeping the chumra of treating eggs like fleishig (because they are produced by chicken)?
    Like not cooking or eating eggs with milchigs and waiting 6 hours after eggs before eating milchigs.

    #1710205

    michaelbardaniel, You are concerned about baal tosif and say that the 613 are enough..

    .I suppose you haven’t heard of אמר רבא קדש עצמך במותר לך (Yevomos 20a), to take on chumros on things which are muttar is actually a good thing,

    It is discussed in Sefer Mesilas Yesorim (worth learning):
    “והנה כלל הפרישות הוא מה שאמרו זכרונם לברכה, “קדש עצמך במותר לך” וזאת היא הוראתה של המילה עצמה, פרישות, רוצה לומר להיות פורש ומרחיק עצמו מן הדבר, והיינו שאוסר על עצמו דבר היתר, והכונה בזה לשלא יפגע באיסור עצמו, והעניין שכל דבר שיוכל להיולד ממנו גרמת רע, אף על פי שעכשיו אינו גורם לו, וכל שכן שאיננו רע ממש ירחק ויפרוש ממנו”.
    “perishus” means to take upon oneself as prohibited something which is permitted. (-as a “chumra” )

    See also Ramban beginning of Parshas Kedoshim that explains the beauty and necessity for taking on chumros.

    So don’t worry about Baal Tosif, it’s ok and even recommended to add chumros (yes, above and beyond the 613).

    #1710229

    BTW – the Ramban counts the chiyuv of קדש עצמך במותר לך (to add chumros) as one of the 613 mitzvos!

    #1710230

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I don’t know why the mods allow this troll to continually distort and mock halacha, but be that as it may, I implore anyone reading this not to take this clown seriously.

    #1710235

    Is adding a chumra distorting or mocking halacha?

    I am open to hearing and accepting if you can back it with sources – like I do.

    Do you not have any chumros?

    Do you disagree with Ramban that it is a mitzva to add chumros?

    Do you think the Mesilas Yeshorim is distorting and mocking halacha by telling us that perishus by adding chumros is good?

    Do you have a source that eggs are paraveh and if so one must NOT treat them as fleishig?

    Chazal gave a HETER to eat honey – because it is produced seperate from the bee. That implies that eggs would be part of chicken.

    Chazal use a possuk to show that milk is not meat – because the Torah prohibits eating/cooking meat with milk. Implying, without the possuk, milk would be meat. Applying to eggs, where there is no possuk, eggs would be fleishig.

    I stress, as a chumrah, not “midina” (halacha) but as a stringency.

    Do you have sources that eggs are parave? – bring them! But making up “halacha” without sources is in itself a mockery and distortion which you commit.

    #1710236

    DY, I will not stoop to name calling and will ignore that you call me a troll and a clown. If you can reply intelligently with sources, please by all means do so. But if you can’t, (as is obvious), who is resorting to name calling?

    #1710237

    why the mods allow this” See reply #1710015 earlier in this thread: Mod 25 thinks I am cute.

    #1710242

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    :כתובות ס
    תוס’ בשם הערוך

    אין לך עם הארץ שלא ידע שהן מותרות בחלב

    #1710243

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    He or she must think jerks are cute.

    #1710244

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Makes one wonder what you could have written to get deleted considering the garbage which has gotten posted.

    #1710248

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The mod was clearly not calling you cute, but for some reason thought what you wrote was cute. No surprise that you distorted what the mod said. At least this time it wasn’t Torah which you distorted.

Viewing 37 posts - 1 through 37 (of 37 total)
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