- This topic has 39 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 4 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
There’s little doubt that most people who became aware of this pricing gaffe knew that something was rotten in the state of denmark and yet im sure many hundreds of them chap areined is there anything wrong with that?
no, why would there be
It was assur to take advantage of a Jewish company’s mistake; especially where they stand to lose many millions of dollars.
Since El Al is Jewishly owned, the money needs to be returned. Only Toaus Akum is muttar. Also there is an issur of onaah which is mevatel the mekach, since the tickets are worth a sixth more then the price they paid.
I heard it was a 3rd party mistake. I’m not sure how that affects El Al, can they sue whoever made that mistake?
I imagine that el al will expect the third party company to cover the difference, as it was entirely that companies fault. if el al isnt losing any money, then it should be ok. if theres some clause between the two companies that the third party doesnt have to pay, then lichoirah be assur.
kollel2,
thats only witth the buyer
AFAIK they are honoring it. Regardless of din, the menschlich thing for them is to honor the tickets and the menschlich thing for the purchasers is to return them for a refund. It’s just a matter of who has more vatranut.
Itchesrulik, if it is a 3rd parties fault and that 3rd party is paying El Al for the losses they caused them, why should there be any inyan for the purchaser to return it?
Maybe the third party is Jewish too. Although the question arises whether a company that isn’t owned by people who keep halacha or Shabbos is considered Jewish or gentile insofar as the halachas of Taos Akum apply. Anyone?
El-Al is a publically traded company.
They should honor it IMO, and they should also make the person responsible for incurring the losses, pay for that mistake. It is not the mistake of the consumer, who did nothing other than legitimately order a ticket through EL AL. If I were to tell a customer the wrong price for something (or if a store mistakenly stickered an item with the wrong price), they are leagally bound to charge the lower price, aren’t they? I woudl agree, however, that once people got wind of the error, they should not have continued to order tickets, if it was being done. I really know very little about this story, though.
Kollel2 – Does Onaah apply when a worker makes a mistake and mislabels a package, to which when presented to the owner he says it is ok? In addition, please remember that more tickets were sold in those few hours than would have been sold in many months. The Mekach may be batel, but they aren’t offering an opportunity to return the money (well, you can cancel on certain sites before sometime this evening.)
42 – m’ikar hadin I don’t know if one is chayav to return it if orbitz etc are not yidden but a good reason to do so would be to make a huge kiddush Hashem – imagine the effect of a bunch of yidden doing something like that…
Suppose the third party is Jewish owned.
The third party in all likelihood has a contractual agreement with the airlines that absolves them for any human or technical error in pricing, even if they are at fault for the error.
” to do so would be to make a huge kiddush Hashem – imagine the effect of a bunch of yidden doing something like that… “
I have seen many people make this tayna, but I don’t think there is much Kiddush Hashem invilved here, there were hundreds, if not thousadns of people who booked a whole bunch of flights for themselves, fmaily, friends, etc knowing that they can check scheduling, etc later and then cancel within 24 hours any “extra” flights. So I’m sure there were many cancellations today but the companies only see that as people cancelling flights that they were never planning on taking rather than people cancelling because it is “the right thing to do”
Is Orbitz or whoever sold the tickets Jewish? Wouldnt it be a case of Taus Yisroel if yes?
A public company is only considered Jewish if the majority of its shareholders or majority of officers are Jewish.
My assumption (not really based on anything) is that El Al is a mostly Jewish company and all halachos would apply to it while Orbitz, Expedia, etc as well as the “3rd party” are all non-Jewish. But it is either El Al or the “3rd Party” who is losing money here so the halacha would probably depend on that.
Do the halachas of Taos Akum apply to a Jew who is a rasha (doesn’t keep halachas)?
Yes. Also talk about being a naval b’rishus HaTorah. Looking for reasons why it’s halachically ok for this.
I wouldn’t flippantly call a whole group of Jews “reshaim”, they might be tinok shenishba or somewhere in between. Rasha is a very strong term (which should only be used by The Wolf in reference to himself).
I heard from a “3rd party” quoting the Business Halacha institute that since El Al is run by non-frum Jews there is less of an issue of Ta’us Yisroel. V’tzarich iyun.
I would assume that El Al is majority owned by Jews (though probably not Shomer Shabbos).
Instead of all of us chatting but having absolutely no knowledge of the pertinent Halochos, I have forwarded this entire question to the “Institute of Business Halocho”.
Let them worry about making a decision, and about all the ramifications.
“Maybe the third party is Jewish too.”
The third party is not Jewish. The question is: will the airline consider the circumstances and allow a cancellation with a refund of the ticket payment, or without a penalty?
Expedia and Orbitz are publically traded companies
While El-Al is traded on the Tel-Aviv stock exchange, so its likely the majority of the shareholders are jewish. Orbitz and Expedia are traded on the New York Stock Exchange and you can assume most of the shareholders are not jewish
zdad, the 3rd party here is the company that submits the prices to Orbitz and Expedia.
none of my friends called to tell me about it.lol
Why is this different then any other Shaila one might have. Ask your Posek and do what he says.
42: A- Avoid taking advantage of the third party for its mistake. B- You can bet the two companies will have to fight tooth and nail over each ticket.
My opinion: I don’t think anybody could have known it was a mistake. Airline fares fluctuate, and it is normal to have unadvertised sales. I once flew to Belize from Newark for 143 roundtrip. I once flew from LGA to San Fransisco for 40 roundtrip.
pba: I was pretty sure. It’s practically unheard of to have a sale like that right before a high traffic season.
I had no clue it was a mistake. People always get cheaper tickets that time of year.
It is pretty rare that I flew for 143 roundtrip to Belize on an unadvertised sale during peak season (December).
Nobody would have been so surprised if the tickets had just gone straight through with no further comment from anyone. Anyone who is saying it was an obvious mistake is either monday morning quarterbacking, or unfamiliar with the airline industry.
ELAL is honoring the tickets.
mod 42-
“I heard from a “3rd party” quoting the Business Halacha institute that since El Al is run by non-frum Jews there is less of an issue of Ta’us Yisroel. V’tzarich iyun.”
This is not correct. No one with permission to speak on behalf of that org said such a thing. (i looked into it and spoke to the Dean of the org).
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.