Election Results 2018 — Republicans Do Better Than Expected

Home Coffeeroom Politics Election Results 2018 — Republicans Do Better Than Expected

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  • #1620597

    jackk
    Participant

    Neville,

    I will give you a few examples. I tried to pick the obvious ones and ones that don’t require so much research. But there are hundreds of his lies – many that he continues to repeat.
    1) “We will build a wall along our Southern border and Mexico will pay for the wall.”
    2) “We will get rid of the Affordable Care Act.”
    3) “Criminals and unknown Middle Easterners are mixed in” the caravan. ”
    4) “Democrats oppose any effort to secure our border.”
    5) He didn’t cancel a political rally after Pittsburgh Shabbos Terrorist attack because after Sept. 11, “the New York Stock Exchange was open the following day.”
    6) “We had a massive landslide victory in the Electoral College.”
    7) “No administration has accomplished more in the first 90 days.”
    8) “There is “no system to vet” refugees from the Middle East. ”

    #1620938

    Joseph
    Participant

    Clinton lost both houses of Congress to the Republicans at his first midterm. Bush lost both houses to the Democrats at his second midterm. Obama lost the house to Republicans at his first midterm and lost the Senate at his second midterm.

    Trump lost the house and picked up the Senate. He’s comparatively, certainly, doing no worse than the previous three presidents and indeed has done better.

    #1620957

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “We will get rid of the Affordable Care Act.”

    It’s not his fault if the senate (a la John McCain) didn’t do their job

    “Criminals and unknown Middle Easterners are mixed in” the caravan. ”

    That’s a fact, are you saying none of them are criminals?

    Democrats oppose any effort to secure our border.”

    The Democrats have a plan to secure our border? Please tell me what it is

    #1620975

    laskern
    Participant

    We have a hungarian saying, don’t throw out the dirty water until you have clean. There was an honorable person, John McCain, who saved the Affordable Care Act.

    #1620991

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @joseph
    Trump did NOT pick up the Senate, there was already a Republican majority (it just increased slightly)

    #1621180

    Avi K
    Participant

    Jackk, recognizing jerusalem as Israel’s capital, shutting down the Fakestinian office in DC, scotching the Iran deal and turning the screws tighter, pushing UNRWA, which supports terrorism, to the brink of bankruptcy. getting Abbas to reject the “deal of the century” before the details are already announced, a booming economy, appointing two defenders of religious freedom to SCOTUS and dozens of conservatives to lower courts (ken yirbu).

    CTL, that is also an accomplishment. It means no delays for the conservative judicial train.

    Laskern, then you will vote for Trump in 2020 bli neder?

    Rabbi Steve, I take it it was permitted to clap because it was for a mitzva.

    #1621281

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @ben L

    ACA is different in each state, especially if there is a state run exchange. Connecticut has one, New Jersey doesn’t.
    I buy my coverage through the exchange because I am self employed. I have the same level plan with the same insurance company. My premium is 60% less than before ACA and I am now 5 years older. I did not lose any doctors and had many more to choose from. Prior to ACA I was restricted to which hospitals I could use, now all CT hospitals must take the coverage.

    I have just signed up for Medicare to start this winter and will lose my primary care physician.

    BTW…… I have posted about this before. Mrs. CTL was on life support in 2016 for 27 days and had 10 surgeries. The bill was 2.5 million dollars. Our policy had a one million dollar cap before ACA, caps were done away with by ACA and our out of pocket was $16.

    #1621285

    laskern
    Participant

    I would not vote for Trump if he was the only person running. I can’t stand
    his selfishness, his narcisistic personal disorder.

    #1621298

    laskern
    Participant

    RabbiSteve, How do the Republicans follow the way of the Torah when they don’t care to support the poor? If there is no tax deduction, they would not give charity?

    #1621315

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Rabbi Steve, tell us more about your congregation. Solemn applause is a very rare behavior, perhaps suitable for a case study.

    #1621319

    laskern

    There are two answers
    1 no party can do everything and therefore they need to
    concentrate on they consider primary and if this gets too far & if the other party shows certain basic restraints, they can as many Republicans in ’08 Half stated,punt over to the other side To let them take care of it
    most of Democratic party however cannot be trusted with the reins of the country in our times
    2 It is indeed is also correct much of the Republican party has gone too far from early 20th century progressivism
    Now there are some who are trying to walk it back

    The GOP primaries in 2016 was about this In part

    Those who have shown much care for the poor prior
    eg Pat Buchanan haven’t been your cup of tea

    this challenge is really is Strawman Because it’s not as if you would change if they
    did take care of the poor

    #1621382

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTL: Sorry, that’s what I meant to say. Republicans picked up Senate seats in a midterm with a Republican president even though by historical standards they should’ve lost Senate seats.

    Thank you President Trump.

    #1621427

    jackk
    Participant

    As time goes on, the headline to this thread is becoming falser and falser.
    Some of the undecided races have gone to the democrats – they have built on the majority in the House and have lowered the losses in the Senate.

    #1621420

    jackk
    Participant

    Coffee Addict:

    You cherry picked 3 to disagree with.
    At least we agree with the other 5.
    On2) : I used that example just for such a response. A failed campaign promise is not usually considered an outright lie but a failure. When Obama promised that you could keep your doctor it was not a lie. The Congress and the reality of the current health care system resulted in the failure to implement that particular promise.
    On 3): This one is hard for me to believe that you disagree with since Trump himself admitted after being forced to admit that he had zero evidence that there were middle easterners in the group.

    On 4) There is a current immigration and border security system in place. Nobody can just emigrate to America. Building a wall on the southwestern border is ineffective and a waste of resources. We do not need to protect the border by putting children in cages. Read the bipartisan immigration bill that Schumer authored that had $40 billion for border security.

    #1621477

    Avi K
    Participant

    Laskern, the best way to support the poor is to give them productive jobs. This is done by the free enterprise system deregulation and tax cuts that encourage investment. The Democratic welfare state has not only made welfare a permanent “profession” passed down from generation to generation but has destroyed low-income families.

    Jackk, FYI three Senate races are still undecided. AZ and FL are very close although the Democrats are trying very hard to steal them. MS is going into a runoff.

    #1621725

    doomsday
    Participant

    Letting people buy insurance AFTER they get sick (pre-existing condition) is like letting people buy
    fire insurance AFTER their house burns down! Why would anybody buy health insurance when they
    are healthy if they can wait until AFTER they’re sick to buy insurance? This condition is designed to
    destroy Insurance and force us into Government Health Care which will Cost You MORE in higher taxes
    then paying for insurance and you will get LESS and Worse Health Care.

    #1621739

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    The Dems, as usual, never miss an opportunity to allow the Republicans to set up a strawman and answer their own question. Did the Republican bill repealing the ACA contain language requiring insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions. Well, yes. Did the bill include a requirement for community ratings so that such individuals would not be charged 10X or 20X times the premiums for others of the same gender or age bracket? No. The insurance companies would have to “offercoverage” which gave the Republicans a political escape route during the campaign but most Dems never challenged them on the cost issue and how meaningless the Republican “protection” was in reality.

    #1621759

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Laskern : They don’t care to support the poor.

    The way to reduce the poor percentage is the Rep. Conservative, capitalistic system. Reduce taxes, deregulate onerous strangulation and revive work ethic …. The American dream, if you will. How have Dems helped the poor? By robbing the coffers to push social programs that helped nobody. How have they helped the poor in ghettos?
    They’re only interested in votes and power.
    May I ask you a personal question? You mention that you’re Hungarian. A 1956’er? Magarol ??
    If yes, look at their old Communist system. Granted, that Hungarians were a bit better off than other Eastern bloc nations, but that’s only because the Soviets didn’t have as tight a grip on Hungary, as say, Poland.
    How are the poor doing in Venezuela, Cuba….etc…etc… ??
    Communism, socialism nem jo, baci..
    Ah, but the Tzigane music…. luv it, especially the Czardas.

    #1621808

    Avi K
    Participant

    Laskern, in order to want to be POTUS it is almost necessary to have a big ego. Why else would one want the enormous headaches. If the leftists get their way no one else will want any public service job. people can’t eat in restaurants in peace without these hooligans harassing them. Trump is indeed very problematic personally but he is our problematic person. The Dems will force everyone to bow down to their idols. Hilary Clinton said so explicitly.

    #1621956

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “My congregants let out a round of solemn applause.”
    Ironically, that means they all did an aveira… Sooo, not really sure they can be used as the yardstick of Torah values.

    Jackk: Are you actually asserting that the current boarder control is successful at keeping out illegals? Do you live in an actual, physical ivory tower somewhere?

    #1622000

    laskern
    Participant

    Zion Gate, The Republicans believe in sink or swim. People don’t like a hand-out nehama deksufa but they when they lose their job and they need a helpful push like job training which is economically profitable like the CETA program eliminated by President Reagon. True, I will give him credit for creating the reverse mortgage program which I have. I worked very hard all my life. In my time in public colleges, you paid for the first 18 credits after which you became matriculated and there was no more tuition now there are stuck with college tuition debt when starting their young life.

    #1622005

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    It seems the dems will gain 38 seats in the house, the most they have gained in any election since 1974.

    If there were no regulations on health insurance, no company would want to cover a frum family, there is a pregancy almost every year ($10-$15,000 per birth assuming no troubles, NICU can costs hundreds of thousands of dollars) and kids get sick so there are always doctors bills. Its a losing proposition

    #1622125

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    One week after Election Day and results keep coming in:

    Arizona Senate seat to a Democrat.
    Florida and Georgia still not known…headed to the courts and/or runoff election

    So> Joseph as of now the GOP only has picked up one seat in the Senate………

    Better than expected results? I don’t think so

    #1622135

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Ctlawyer

    Its likely Florida and Georgia will go to the GOP.

    The only unknown seat is Mississippi, Its requires a runoff there, but I really doubt the Democrat is going to win

    Its likely to be a 2 seat gain for the GOP in the senate and a 38 seat loss in the house

    #1622149

    Joseph
    Participant

    CTL: Any Republican senatorial pickup is better than expected. In the midterms Republicans should’ve lost seats, as the party in the White House has for the past numerous administrations.

    Any way you slice and dice this Trump did MUCH MUCH better in his first midterms than Obama did in his first midterms.

    #1622216

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Laskern,
    College tuition has nothing to do with political parties. Universities are ripping off parents so that their personnel sitting in plush offices make high 6 – figure $$$$$.
    There are good community colleges which are underrated, and there’s a young man with a website to draw students into apprentice programs to learn a trade.
    In so many cases, a college degree these days is worthless.
    Of course, if you like Bernie Sanders who wants free tuition, then the consequences would be a Socialist regime with its Venezuelan end. While we’re at it, why not give everything for free? Because a normal country can’t survive this way.
    In old Eretz Yisroel, people worked, sold, crafted to make parnassah.. Even Leviim had a migrash. Poor people collected Shikcha, Peah…. It was a communist system not.
    Nehama dichsufa is unfortunately today a Shalosh Seudah Torah.. An anonymous clerk in government sends checks. . All kinds of checks , so the recipient does’nt have to look the donor in the eye… There’s billions$$$$$ in abuse tgere also…
    Not for nothing, in certain neighborhoods, I’m the only shmoiger neb who pays cash… Those in front of me on line, and those in back, are all waving plastic… Dayin Lachakima Birmiza. Our gov’t is generous with the needy, but the system is abused… Go Republican.. Stop robbing all pockets to pay Paul.

    #1622232

    laskern
    Participant

    Zion Gate, What did the Republicans do to help the middle class or seniors as myself? It was the Democrats who created Social Security and Medicare.

    #1622373

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Laskern,
    Agreed.
    But the old Dem & Repub. parties no longer exist.
    There’s no honorable, warm , decent Hubert Humphrey Dem.
    No longer monied Repubs who looked down at lower classes.
    I don’t know what you want as senior, but did Dems do to help? Would be nice if they could work together….. But Dems want resistance, destruction, litigation and power.
    Did the Donkey do anything for inner cities?
    They absolutely refuse to sit with Repubs for ANYTHING.
    Nada….. semmi…nula…
    Trump is destrangulating and business & manufacturing is returning… An opportunity for even seniors to get a shtikel job…
    Obama did something for seniors????
    P-u-l-e-e-e-ze…

    #1622878

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “One week after Election Day and results keep coming in:”

    You’re okay with the fact that this statement is able to be true thanks to illegal activity done by at least one person with a criminal past of voter fraud?

    I’m not arguing with your thoughts on the title of this thread. I agree that this should be categorized as a Democrat victory. But, I don’t see how it should be a point of pride that certain people are trying to extend the victory by fraudulent means.

    #1622890

    jackk
    Participant

    ZionGate,

    Why do you need to type like this “p-u-l-e-e-e-z-e” Or repeat the same thing over and over nada….semmi…nula ….. ?
    It distracts from your posts and it makes it seem that you do not respect your readers.
    Stick to your arguments and don’t add the fluff.

    All of your points about the dems and republicans are just spouting opinions without facts.
    “No longer monied Repubs who looked down at lower classes. ” There are many rich republicans that do not want to share any of their money.
    “Dems want resistance, destruction, litigation and power”. That is exactly what the Republicans did the last 8 years before Trump .
    “An opportunity for even seniors to get a shtikel job…” Nobody is hiring seniors to learn new skills for 8 hours per day manufacturing jobs.

    #1622918

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Jackk,
    Sorry, but that’s part of my writing style , just like you have yours. Feel free to skip over it if it irks you.
    Semmi & nula are only 2 Hungarian words I used just as small talk to a fellow Jewish Magyar.
    I’ll just ignore the rest of your pedantic lesson to me,
    which irks me as well. Jo estet…

    #1622891

    laskern
    Participant

    ZionGate, extremes are not good in either parties. We need compromise. I heard once the difference between a tzelem and l’havdil a magen david is the first has only extremes whereas the second has midpoints. It says whether one increases or diminishes it doesn’t matter as long as he does it for heaven’s sake. The word for dimishing is אך the letters after it is לב the word for increasing is גם the letters before it is also לב so the to extremes come together at the heart.

    #1622947

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @ziongate
    Free College Tuition is not a Socialist scheme and need not end up like Venezuela

    My father went to City College, My mother went to Hunter College in the late 1930s-early 40s. They were FREE, not just tuition, but books. The only cost was subway fare. notebooks, paper and pens.

    The entrance was by examination, unless you graduated Townsend Harris HS (for City) or Hunter College High School. My parents graduated those high schools at the age of 14. City and Hunter were predominantly Jewish in those days.
    They churned out businessmen, future lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc.
    NYC didn’t become a socialist state because of free tuition

    #1622951

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Laskern,
    Nice explanation. Now that you mentioned ” lev “,
    let’s be hopeful in this month of KISLEV.
    As I’m sure you know , Kis= pocket..meaning money,
    LEV= heart…. To do mitzvos with simchas halev, so we can be zoche to have a great month of parnassah and good tidings…Amein.

    #1622960

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @ziongate
    College is expensive, for many reasons. There are ways to lower the cost.
    #1 Go to public institutions, not private (save 1/3)
    #2 Start with Community College for the first 2 years (save 2/3)
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Now state specific ways to save:
    Here in CT
    #3 Take ECE courses in High School, NOT AP
    ECE-early college experience are UCONN courses taught in the high schools by qualified teachers. Students receive UCONN college credits for these and they are transferable to most colleges. My kids took ECE Statistics, English Comp, Biology, Chemistry and US History. When they graduated High School they had 15 college credits without having paid college tuition, just for books.
    #4 Do 2 years in community college $200 per credit, THEN instead of transferring to UCONN or a State University @$28,000 per year. finish your degree at Charter Oak College. Charter Oak (a state college) charges $300 per credit, but if you have done your first 60 credits in community college, you can finish Junior and Senior years paying the same $200 rate. Total tuition for a Bachelor’s Degree would be only $24,000 and be covered by Pell and other grants.

    Yes, one can go to an Ivy League school for 70K per year (10 time what I paid almost 50 years ago) or you can spend less than 10K

    #1623003

    ZionGate
    Participant

    CTLAWYER,
    Couldn’t agree more community colleges which I referenced earlier. The highly expensive colleges to which I alluded are not necessarily Ivy Leagues. There are good colleges across the country, not Iveys, but who charge a fortune , and have high payroll for higher-up employees who are excess baggage.
    I mentioned Sanders not only because of his free tuition idea, but he advocates for a socialist, if not, Maxist philosophy.
    Lucky , your parents & all the other students didn’t have a Bernie around to hear him angrily denouncing our system while he & wife are multi- millionaires.
    ‘Twas a different era…. Diligence, family, hard work, for the most part no sense of entitlement, young kids working to help support family, etc.

    #1623021

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I don’t see how you can use the old system many states had of free tuition as a proof in its favor. If it worked, why do you think they all stopped doing it? Corporate greed?

    It was a different percentage of the population going to college back then.

    #1623220

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @NevilleChaimBerlin

    Free tuition at CUNY ended in the 1970s because NYC was broike and the Financial Review Board insisted that CUNY chagre the same tuition as SUNY

    #1623263

    Meno
    Participant

    Free tuition at CUNY ended in the 1970s because NYC was broike…

    Nice to see the yeshivish accent finally rubbing off on you 😉

    #1623360

    Joseph
    Participant

    Why was NYC broke, CTL?

    #1623362

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @meno
    Lots of typos today….allergies are bothering my eyes

    #1623377

    yichusdik
    Participant

    There’s no joy for a sensible person in The Democrats picking up more than 35 seats IF neither party works with the other for the common good of the electorate. Those who govern have to do more than win elections. And every important piece of legislation even on Israel/Jewish issues (Jackson-Vanik, covert help for soviet, syrian and Ethiopian aliya, Iron Dome funding) happened because both parties worked together. The republicans didn’t play ball when they had both houses, and stymied themselves several times without the democrats help. Now the house is in democrat hands, I have no more confidence in them to avoid partisanship. They showed poor partisan judgement on how they handled the Kavanaugh evidence, and it blew up on them.

    That being said, POTUS was simply wrong on the numbers when he claimed victory in the elections.

    Fact: Democrats won control of seven governorships. The republicans gained one. 87 state legislatures held elections in 2018, and the Democratic Party gained control of at least 350 state seats and seven state chambers. Democrats gained unified control of seven state governments and broke unified Republican control of four state governments.

    Fact: over 6 million more total votes for democrats than republicans in Federal races.

    Fact: most seats picked up by democrats since the Nixon administration

    Fact: about a 10% average shift to democratic candidates in ALL races, even those the republicans won. That is an incredible shift.

    Fact: republicans got slaughtered in suburban electoral districts. democrats picked up at least 22 seats in this fastest growing element measured by population density. 121 million people live in suburban districts, and at least 83 million of them are now represented by democrats.

    Fact: The republicans picked up one seat in the senate. NO ONE was predicting they were going to lose senate seats. Nat Silver, the noted statistician who tracked probabilities right up to the election, gave the Democrats only a 15% chance of increasing their Senate Tally. That is only 2% lower than the probability he calculated for the republicans to increase their house seats (17%) . So it is misleading to characterize accomplishing something you were 5 times more likely to accomplish than not as much of a victory.

    #1623390

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    OK, good, so conventional wisdom would imply that NYC would go broke again if they offered free tuition again. I truly don’t see where you’re going with the argument.

    #1623470

    CTLAWYER
    Participant

    @joseph

    The quick answer as to why NYC and most northern industrial cities were twofold>>>>
    #1 White Flight in the decade after school busing and integration, the white middle class fled to the suburbs taking their tax dollars and small businesses with them.

    #2 The 1971 Arab Oil Embargo and OPEC price hikes made to expensive to manufacture in the hundred year old northern factories. These buildings were fine when oil was 5 cents per gallon, not $1.00 or more
    The rust belt was created and the south rode a new industrial wave to economic superiority. Others just oved their factories offshore.

    I was involved in a major sewing manufacturer’s business in Waterbury, CT. We could not afford to heat our 1880s buildings. We moved all production to South Carolina. The buildings were let go for taxes. They remained vacant for more than 30 years

    #1623468

    Joseph
    Participant

    yichusdik — Democrats gained on the lowest end of what they were predicted to gain in the House. Republicans netted two Senate seats in a midterm year that historically indicates they should’ve lost seats, not gained any. Same with the gubernatorial races. Republicans won the governorships in the hard fought swing states of Florida, Ohio and Georgia. Democrats only netted what was predicted for a midterm party out of power.

    And Republicans did much better at Obama’s first midterm than Democrats did at Trump’s. On all levels — Senate, House, Governors and state legislators and chambers (where Democrats gained 200+ this election compared to 700+ Republicans gained eight years ago, when Republicans flipped far more chambers then than Democrats now.)

    In a nutshell, Trump did much better than Obama.

    #1624115

    yichusdik
    Participant

    Joseph – did I say anything about Obama? I don’t care about Obama. I don’t need to hear Trump talking points about better than him or locking her up. I wont be gaslit by you into defending Obama either.

    In a nutshell, not losing as terribly as you think you could have is not a victory to trumpet, unless you are so insecure that you need to convince yourself that something that is simply and objectively a negative referendum on your presidency is actually a thumbs up.

    The most important statistics I shared were the huge net voter swing away from republicans across the board, even in districts they won, and the shift to democrats in the suburbs. You can temporize all you want, but I listened to several REPUBLICAN commentators this week who saw these issues as huge problems for them going in to 2020.

    I frankly think the leadership of both parties are useless or worse. The only real hope I have coming out of this election is that more veterans were elected this time than at any time since 1946 and 1948. Those veterans learned how to work together for common goals on the battlefield, and they accomplished incredible things as a legislature.

    #1624157

    jackk
    Participant

    Jospeh,

    What was predicted? Please tell us whose predictions you are referring to.
    The Republicans were not planning on losing the house. They lost it big time.

    Governorships of Florida and Georgia have not been called yet. You do not get to count them.

    Obama had consistently better approval ratings than Trump has ever had.

    #1624219

    Joseph
    Participant

    It’s a midterm. The party in the White House historically loses almost every time. Trump did as expected, at worst, and indeed better than expected given the historical results of midterms.

    #1624239

    Joseph
    Participant

    Virtually every pre-election analyst (Nate Silver, etc.) predicted the Democrats would retake the House with a net pickup of between 30 something to 70 seats. (They gained on the lower end.) They did on the lower end. For the Senate the non-partisan analysts were saying Republicans would likely keep the Senate with somewhere between losing one seat to gaining one seat. (They gained two.)

    Again, this is a midterm. And the results were not out of line with how much the party in power typically (and that’s almost every midterm) loses. In fact, the fact that Republicans *gained* in the Senate is much better than almost any other midterm for the party in power.

    #1624750

    Joseph
    Participant

    The Republican candidate has officially won the race for Governor of Florida.

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