May 26, 2020 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #1864880
Is there a good metric to figure out how the yidden were affected by coronavirus relative to our neighbors?
1. Virus testing – In late March, we were generally much higher than non Jews but since then they almost caught up. This would imply that the virus hit us at first much more than our neighbors but people like Yossi Gestetner of OJPAC claim that it was only a result of more testing done on our communities. Is there any evidence to that?
2. Death rates – As of Late May, it looks like we are a bit LOWER than the general public. However, this is most definitely flawed since our average age is much much lower than everyone else. Would a mathematician be able to adjust the rates to account for this flaw? Perhaps if they come out with stats showing the death rates for elderly people in each area would be a perfect metric.
3. Antibody testing – according to some reports I have seen tge results wre vetween 58% and 75% positive. But does this mean anything in regard to my question? (1) the testing wasnt randomized – it was probably mostly people who already believed themselves to be immune and (2) I would want to compare it to a similar testing of non frum people.
Did I miss a better metric ?May 27, 2020 1:15 am at 1:15 am #1865246
A good rule of thumb to obtain your desired statistical comparison would be to compare Lakewood’s ZIP code to the statewide numbers of New Jersey.May 27, 2020 7:58 am at 7:58 am #1865289commonsaychelParticipant
08701 has quite a lot of 55 plus community and nursing homes that are not related to the frum community and it may throw the numbers out of wack.May 27, 2020 9:45 am at 9:45 am #1865318n0mesorahParticipant
Empirical data and covid have not really gone together too much.May 27, 2020 9:46 am at 9:46 am #1865301akupermaParticipant
There are no reliable statistics, and since the matter has become highly political there is no way we will get reliable statistics. If you define someone as “having Covid19” based on antibody tests, you get such a high number that it throws into question whether the shutdowns were ever justified. If you base it on testing positive, you have a problem since they only tested people were were sick, or at least exposed even though it has always been clear that many (and according to antibody testing, most) people who are infected don’t get seriously ill. And mortality figures can, or can not, consider someone as having died from Covid19 if they had some other problem that might have killed them regardless.May 27, 2020 9:49 am at 9:49 am #1865309
Then use 11219, if that’s more representative (than 08701). And compare it to the citywide statistics of New York City.May 27, 2020 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1865550
The title doesn’t match the OP. The title is “how did we handle,” while the OP asks how it affected us. I don’t know of a way to measure how we handled it other than through anecdotal evidence, which can be misleading. In theory, it’s pretty straightforward to answer the question of how it affected us. We just have to have sufficient testing. In NY, about 9% of the population has been tested for the virus; in NJ it’s somewhat less. I haven’t seen stats on antibody testing, and presumably such stats would be suspect because the FDA blew it and allowed bogus antibody tests for a while.
It’s hard to compare the frum community in the NY/NJ area to the non-Jews. The African American community was hit hard for a number of reasons that don’t apply so much to the frum community: they work in service jobs with a lot of contact with the public, they have worse access to health providers, and I believe they have a higher incidence of comorbidities like hypertension and diabetes.May 27, 2020 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1865556
UPDATE: Molly Boigon at the Forward wrote an article today discussing this question and she ends up at a miskanah that there really wasn’t that much of a difference between the frumme and the goyim. She had pretty good evidence to support the OJPAC claim that early spikes in positives ampng us was a result of high unproportional testing among yidden. She also mentions that in a way we were better off because yidden are healthier than goyim(!)May 27, 2020 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #1865612
The Gemara suggests that the Shichvas Zera of a Nochri has different properties from that of a Jew, since the Nochri eats non-Kosher foods and is physically affected by his diet. The Chasam Sofer (Teshuvos YD 175) writes that this Gemara is relevant in practice. He rules that we cannot assume that a medical treatment that was tested successfully on a Nochri will also be successful on a Jew. Rav Elyashev zt’l pointed out that the Chasam Sofer writes that the physical characteristics of a Yid are different than a Goy, and that what applies to one may not apply to the other.May 28, 2020 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1865617
I would assume having hatzalah saved a lot of livesMay 28, 2020 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #1865720
Joseph, what happens when a goy converts, when a non-frum Jew becomes a baal tshuvah, or when a frum Jew goes OTD? Of course, most Jews eat non-kosher food and vegetarian/vegan goyim don’t eat non-kosher. Would ascetic Jains (who are so strict about not killing animals that they sweep in front of them so as not to step on insects) have the same characteristics as frum Jews?May 28, 2020 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #1865766yitzymotchaParticipant
I don’t know the particulars. My understanding is that poskim rely on research done on non Jews. However, there is scholarly literature arguing that the food you eat does effect metabolism and can impact test results on say the effectiveness of medication. That is why certain people call for the inclusion of minority test subjects in studies.May 28, 2020 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #1865767
YY, they change their diet to kosher only and duly accrue said benefits.
If you have any additional questions you can learn the Gemorah and Chasam Sofer, and hopefully become a boki on this issue. Do ascetic Jains eat a 100% kosher diet?May 31, 2020 12:42 am at 12:42 am #1865934
Jains are lacto-vegetarians, but the frummer ones are vegans. I suppose in theory, the lacto-vegetarians could drink camel’s milk. Presumably there’s no problem with bugs in the vegetables they eat, so the vegan ones eat a kosher diet. Of course, they’re not makpid on bishul akum.
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