January 6, 2014 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #611772
If we’re supposed to be emulating Hashem’s many attributes, how does the “midda k’neged midda” aspect filter down to us humans?January 6, 2014 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #997436yytzParticipant
When we emulate Hashem’s traits, we only emulate the “positive” ones — chesed and forgiveness and the like — and not the “negative” ones like punishment for sins or being a “jealous G-d.”
So if someone does something bad to us, that does not give us the right, under the principle of emulating divine traits and midda k’neged midda, to do something similar back to them.
However, certainly if someone does something kind to you then you should also do something kind for them. (But I suppose you should already be doing kind things for them anyway, since G-d is good to all.)
Tomer Devorah, by the Ramak, is available in English online for free. It’s a good manual for emulating Hashem’s traits.January 6, 2014 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #997437
Not every thing are we supposed to emulate. Still I can think of one thing here too.
When criticizing or punishing someone for a wrong s/he did, make sure that person can figure out WHAT they did, in order to correct themselves. That is the purpose of midda k’neged midda – for a person to be able to take note and correct himself.January 6, 2014 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #997438🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
streekgeek- bais din is supposed to follow that when giving an onesh.January 6, 2014 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #997439
That is the purpose of midda k’neged midda – for a person to be able to take note and correct himself.
If that’s the case, why would Hashem use this method of punishment in our days? Who can possibly figure out (besides for those few holy people) why they were punished? Who can possibly judge and decide that?January 6, 2014 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #997440WIYMember
Try your best. If you really think into it you will figure it out.January 7, 2014 2:53 am at 2:53 am #997441
Do you know how the two Lkwd girls that were in an accident are doing?January 7, 2014 2:54 am at 2:54 am #997442
HaShem equips a person with the natural capabilities to figure out certain things, to be able to self correct, readjust. Feelings of shame and guilt. They’re all for a person’s ultimate benefit. A person may try to corrupt and disable those heavenly sent gifts because it’s sometimes to hard to try, to attain a lofty standard.
??? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ????, this Yashrus is enough for us to (only the intended recipient – not anyone else taking you on a guilt trip) discern HaShem’s message. Sometimes as clear as a bolt of lightening, sometimes not as clear.January 7, 2014 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #997443
You’ve started showing your deep side more often these days 🙂January 7, 2014 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #997444
Yes, we learn from Hashem’s Middos of discipline. What does that have to do with hitting a friend you are angry at? We also learn from Hashem how to act as a judge — if you are one.
The response, to only learn from His positive traits, is sad but it made me laugh.January 7, 2014 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #997445
The Gemara says that if someone looks to Shamayim to punish a friend, he gets punished first. The Maharal explains that this person is seeking bad and therefore gets that himself. And although Hashem also punishes, that is for the purpose of the gain for that person or the universe, but it is impossible for a human to seek revenge without the badness.
Any parent can understand this. The difference between the parent punishing and a sibling is a big one.January 7, 2014 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #997446
TAOM: Does that offend / bother you or any one else?January 7, 2014 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #997447
I love it 🙂January 7, 2014 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #997448yytzParticipant
“If that’s the case, why would Hashem use this method of punishment in our days? Who can possibly figure out (besides for those few holy people) why they were punished? Who can possibly judge and decide that?”
The books of R’ Shalom Arush discuss this, for example in Garden of Peace (his marriage manual for men). Well worth reading.January 7, 2014 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #997449
yytz – I actually have a book by him (Garden of Emuna) but have not been able to bring myself to start it yet…maybe nows a good time 😉 Thanks!
Little Froggie – I like this side of you too. Have you been running on lack of sleep, cuz I know for myself that that’s when I usually have my deepest side showing. I’ve been wanting to tell you, remember this exchange we had HERE. Well because of THIS escapade I got a new car and I designated it as a lashon nekiya zone. So that’s all in your merit! Thank you!!!January 7, 2014 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #997450
Did you put a miniature frog on the dashboard, with a bobbing head, as a reminder?January 7, 2014 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #997451
Haleivi – Lol. I actually thought of that, but than would totally compromise my anonymity. If anyone knows where a cute little froggie keychain could be found I would appreciate that 😉
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