End of the mask mitzva cult?

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    Avram in MD


    “I encountered one at a simcha, where there was a specific request to only have vaccinated people (due to a medical condition of the baalas simcha, that many might not have known about) – that, at the time, meant no children. Hundreds of people followed the request, while generally not adhering to any precautions, including ambushing the lady who was trying to avoid that. Then, I see a family with a kid.”

    The baalas simcha was in more danger from the hundreds of vaccinated people milling about than the lone kid at the buffet. And honestly I find it hard to believe that you were in attendance at an event with hundreds of people prior to October 2021, when such gatherings were strongly discouraged. Maybe you should’ve stayed home and watched via Zoom.


    Avram, baalas simcha was very nervous overall, and justifiably knowing where she is. She arranged this at a safest, largest, multi-room place with other precautions and this was at the lowest pre-delta level. We came to support and help her as much/little as we could. Don’t regret coming, but can’t un-see people who were showing kavod to a friend by endangering her. I don’t know, of course, who knew how much. On a positive side, one antivaxxer did comply in order to attend. So, “simcha mandates” might work.


    RW > It’s one thing to wear a mask which may help, it’s another thing to wear a useless symbolic cloth.

    what is your conclusion? Are you wearing a better mask?

    > imagine it stopping a microscope virus

    Virus does not travel by itself, it attaches to small particles. Masks have not only mechanical filters, but also electrostatic that attracts those particles. A bigger problem is gaps even with proper masking, kal vhomer with half-worn.

    But behavior and environment are probably more important. If you don’t stay long in poorly ventilated rooms with other people, you’ll reduce your risk and probably severity in case of getting it. If you lock yourself in a closed room and windows with a large group singing nigunim, N95 might not help.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Avram – agreed. Everyone who was a health risk knew that the vaccine did not do anything to prevent transmission and I don’t believe for a second that someone with health concerns would have had any type of group simcha anywhere. I will have to assume this is another one of those edited versions of a story that is revamped in the hopes of either spreading ill will or making a point.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    “As you are saying, hopefully this is water under the bridge and things are getting better now.” As I was saying? I was saying its long term damage. Why do you rephrase my words to the exact opposite? Is this that denial thing of yours, trolling or you just don’t really listen? I said long term damage, its far from water under the bridge and nothing has changed so how could it be getting better?


    Syag > vaccine did not do anything to prevent transmission

    factual correction: vaccine does reduce transmission, although less than severe disease – especially for variants. 7x reduction for the famous Phase 3 trials was for transmission. Event in question was pre-Delta. I don’t plan to discuss details of organizer motivation, as well as others. I just brought a minor detail that struck me as totally oblivious – you are told of the rules, it would take 15 minutes to comply, and you refuse. Pre-covid, this would be boorish behavior that would just end up with extra shnitsel consumed. Start appreciating all the gemorahs discussing a thought put into every act done correctly – drinking reviis with 2, not 1, not 3, gulps. If you learn to be careful with every action, then you can easily adjust to ever-changing reality.


    Syag > long term damage,

    I trust you know more of what is happening with kids in schools. There is a “recover” trial run by NIH to look at long covid, including in kids. I don’t know how to weigh these risks against each other.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    You don’t need to weigh the risks against each other. According to the pediatric infectious disease journal article the studies out there trying to prove long covid in kids is a thing are not very impressive. And to try to dig something random up becuase you don’t want to imply or admit you might actually be wrong about the damage the masks are doing is just sad.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    AAQ – i used to assume you were spouting valid information but only your impressions and interpretations were contrived. Now that I see your last two posts I realize it is all just kinda whatever you strung together. And the best parts are when you want to know what medical authority directed us and we said our doctors, you turn around and complain that nobody is asking any shailas for a psak. It is nice that you know a lot of text and can insert so much of it in every post, but it is very disheartening when you attach your own meanings and interpretations to them.

    “I don’t plan to discuss details of organizer motivation, as well as others.”

    that is exactly what you did. go read your post

    ” I just brought a minor detail that struck me as totally oblivious – you are told of the rules, it would take 15 minutes to comply, and you refuse. ”

    minor detail? It was the focal point of your post. and assuming you are saying “you” in the general sense, what are you talking about. Refuse what? What takes 15 minutes, getting a vaccine? What are you talking about?


    Syag, sorry for not being clear. I wanted to highlight that one family whom I know for a long long time – who first did not read the directions (or possibly disregarded them), and then refused to follow them when I asked them (extremely nicely). All they needed was to hop into the car and get the kid home. They had someone sitting with the rest of the kids.

    Re: when you say “our doctors”, maybe you can say what your doctors say specifically.

    My questions about psak is generally towards people’s public behaviors, not medical decisions. Usually directed at people who bring mysterious quotes from websites, not you. I am pretty sure those are not from their doctors.

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