July 2, 2019 12:24 pm at 12:24 pm #1750288
I feel like regardless of one perspective on the current state of Israel, that accessibility that we have towards Israel in the modern era is unbelievable. The sacrifices that the Torah giants made to go up to Israel despite unfathomable hardships, are impossible for us to understand. We do I feel like this isn’t spoken about and appreciated much?July 2, 2019 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #1750689JosephParticipant
Call it Eretz Yisroel instead of Israel and we can discuss this.July 2, 2019 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #1750989manitouParticipant
I believe that Satmar poisoned the well.July 2, 2019 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #1751083RavkahanazadakParticipant
True. I believe most jews in chutz laaretz dont have a good reason not to be in eretz yisrael.July 2, 2019 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #1751214lakewhutParticipant
Because yeshivas on America don’t want their alumni to move to E”Y, for multiple reasons.July 2, 2019 9:32 pm at 9:32 pm #1751679
So nobody thinks it’s because of any inherently good reason? We should all feel very grateful that we can relatively freely live In Israel? On that from a historical perspective this is a magnificent opportunity?July 3, 2019 7:02 am at 7:02 am #1751755dbrimParticipant
We are still atoning for cheit hamiraglim. And if Klal Yisroel dragged their heels when Moshe Rabbeinu attempted to lead them in, the general absence of encouragement by the majority of Torah-Jewry leaders does not bold well for us making the move. On the the hand, this thread, and the fact that at least some Jews believe that we have by-and-large run out of valid excuses for remaining in chutz la’aretz (with exceptions, of course) is a big step in the right direction. Hashem has given us such an opportunity, to live in Eretz Yisroel in relative physical and spiritual peace – how can we possibly refuse it? #hauntthepalaceJuly 3, 2019 9:26 am at 9:26 am #1751842
So you seem to be saying that most Torah leaders discourage moving to Israel (something I never said). But you think that’s horrible and we all should move. So in other words in your opinion I should listen to mr or Mrs dbrim posting anonymously contrary to Torah leaders(again that’s your assertion on Torah leaders view). Do I have that right?July 3, 2019 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1752010user176Participant
Agreed. We are too comfortable. Physically and even spiritually, we arent willing to risk anything to move. Personally I probably learn more Torah here than I would there. I am a product of the community I grew up in and thrive best under these conditions, familiar rabbis, schools, shuls, minhagim, language. Not to mention family. Moving to place that is unfamiliar and may be viewed as dangerous to live may not seem like the best option to optimize my relationship with Bore Olam. My rabbi always stresses how we will all end up in Israel and how he wishes to be there (the community needs him and held him back from moving several times). If we fully understood the zchut of living in Israel we would leave everything behind.July 3, 2019 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #1752424
User 176 so your saying we should all move in theory but that in practice it may not be a good idea so for many of us it’s better not to. That’s not unreasonable. You also seem to imply that even if it would be correct for some of us to move that doesn’t mean we would actually do it.July 4, 2019 8:47 am at 8:47 am #1752475Avi KParticipant
User, there is no Torah like the torah of EY. You list language as one of your reasons. FYI, there are many shiurim here that are given in English as well as English-speaking kollelim. However, unless you learn Hebrew (and a bit of Aramaic) you will never be able to fully understand Torah.
Grey matter, for almost every mitzva there are those who are exempt. For example, a person who must eat to save his life may not fast on Yom Kippur. Ask you LOR if you have a heter to refrain from making aliya.July 4, 2019 8:48 am at 8:48 am #1752476dbrimParticipant
Use your Grey Matter:
I did not say Rabbonim are discouraging, nor did I use the word horrible. What I posted is factual. So to reiterate – majority of jewish leadership is not actively encouraging this mitzvah and by and large American Jewry is staying put, despite the accessibility of this amazing opportunity and despite being desperately needed here in E”Y. Although it should go without saying, OF COURSE you should discuss this kind of decision with your Daas Torah and follow through with his psak. So don’T get so hostile – and it’s Dr. Brim, by the way, and I wasn’t paskening for anyone.July 4, 2019 10:14 am at 10:14 am #1752566☕️coffee addictParticipant
“We are still atoning for cheit hamiraglim. And if Klal Yisroel dragged their heels when Moshe Rabbeinu attempted to lead them in, the general absence of encouragement by the majority of Torah-Jewry leaders does not bold well for us making the move”
If that was the חטא then why when they said they sinned and decided to go in that wasn’t a תשובה
Obviously that wasn’t the חטאJuly 4, 2019 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #1752669Avi KParticipant
CA, the spies did not want to go. The people did. However, that obviously was not enough given the enormity of the חטא. Rambam discusses this in chapters 1 and 4 of Hilchot Teshuva. In fact, the two great national sins the חטא העגל and the חטא המרגלים were so profound that they are still with us. The former is committed by all those who think that some foreign ideology, even if it some part of Torah (in fact, according to the Zohar the sin involved separating the name אלוקים and only having אלה), will by itself bring תיקון עולם. The latter is committed by all those who want to give up sovereignty over all or part of Eretz Yisrael.July 4, 2019 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1752727☕️coffee addictParticipant
That might be how you were taught
I was taught that klal yisrael didn’t want to go in with a neis which was why they sent spies and once Moshe told them that Hashem wasn’t helping them that’s when they decided to fight (that’s why they said the inhabitants were stronger than themJuly 4, 2019 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #1752772rational jewParticipant
The mraglim were “ma’asu b’eretz chemdah”. They were disgusted with the delightful land that Hashem gave them as a gift. They admitted the benefits of the land, but still, did not love the gift of Hashem enough to overcome their fears.
To give an example, many people are afraid of marriage. There are many potential conflicts, so many risks involved. But sometimes, when we meet the right one, the love is so intense and so deep, that we feel that nothing, not even death itself, can stand in the way of our love.
That was the sin of the M’raglim. Of course there were risks. The Cna’anim were strong. The spys reported that the people were mysteriously dying, according to Chazal. But, as with any strong relationship, even faults are seen as cute. The Jewish nation did not yet have that deep trust in Hashem to ignore all of their fears and fall into the embrace of Hashem in His own palace.
“Yerushalayim is surrounded by mountains, and Hashem surrounds His people.”
If you stand in Ir David, on the spot of the one who said these words, you can see two mountains coming round as if in an embrace of Yerushalayim and the Jewish people.
There is no place like home.
Sometimes, you feel that love, so you move to the Holy Land, but sometimes you must first move to feel the love.
It may not be easy, and there may be many seemingly valid reasons. Efes ki az ha’am hayoshev ba’aretz! The people are strong! It’s dangerous!
But there are many reasons not to marry your bashert.
No rabbi will force you to marry.
It must come from the heart.July 4, 2019 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #1752828
To the esteemed dr. Brim (is that PHD or md?)
Is Rav Chaim a part of Torah leadership what would he tell you to do? How about Rav Obadiah Yosef?
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