eretz yisreal

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  • #2084515
    The Real Truth
    Participant

    when will all the violence stop already?

    #2084582
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Hayom…im bekolo tishma’un

    #2084583
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Hayom…im bikoli tishma’un**

    #2084596
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    Let’s be honest and stop living our lives in denial…… Thinking we can fool Hashem the king of kings ruler of the entire world.

    We know the honest truth-as we are reading this- why we are still sadly sitting in exile and watching our loving brethren suffer all over the world R”L. We can’t fool Hashem. A person is a fool if he thinks he can fool Hashem.

    Hashem DAILY R”L has been sending us horrific tragic wake up calls for all of us as one loving nation-on all levels from from to frei to Chassidish etc….-to come together and do serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP like we all did in the story of Purim as soon as Mordechai and Esther said we should all go into our shuls and start begging Hashem forgiveness and to cancel the bitter decree of Haman who was trying to destroy the entire nation of klal yisroel C”V.

    BUT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO US TODAY? we are all living 8n denial and not ready to accept the truth that we are all guilty and all these horrific tragedies could have all been avoided including this terrible coronavirus Mageifa Pandemic that still continues R”L and it’s the biggest pain to the person who knows that it could’ve all been avoided (ex. if he had just listened to the doctor and taken the prescribed medicine to cure his serious illness of life threatening cancer. It’s the biggest pain to the doctor-over anyone else including family-when he knows he could’ve still been alive and healed if he would’ve just listened to his advice and prescription) today we are all asking ourselves what does Hashem want from me? This coronavirus pandemic Mageifa is not my fault I have nothing to do with it etc….. But in the back of oyr heads we all know the truth and see Hashems direct wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP were just not ready to FACE REALITY AND ADMIT IT to Hashem. Thus we leave our loving father Hashem no choice but to keep on sending us shocking wake up calls for Teshuva. Do you know any parents that likes to punish his child? Sometimes the child doesn’t listen and needs to be punished what is this called? A potch of love and we know it’s for the child’s benefit and years later the child will thank the parent for the punishment which was needed to learn from his mistakes. Hashem loves his loving children and nation klal yisroel and is waiting to send Mashiach bkarov and the geula shleima bkarov as soon as we show Hashem that we are ready to do our Hishtadlus and wake up as a loving nation together for serious Teshuva and Achdus ASAP

    May it happen very soon

    #2084601
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    “when will all the violence stop already?”, when people stop trolling

    #2084967
    moishekapoieh
    Participant

    I know it’s soooo difficult for some people to call it Medinat Yisrael.
    Shame on you – after 2,000 years of torture and death , we now have our own medinah, but you can’t seem to get that word out. feh !
    also, learn to spell its name correctly !!!!

    #2084977
    Kuvult
    Participant

    Sam Klein,
    I tried to do an Achdus project with the Shul on the next block. But my Ruv said since some of them have internet in their home and some of the women wear longer Sheitels it’s better not to interact with them. I also tried to arrange a football game for the boys but my Ruv said our kinderlach shouldn’t interact with boys who learned on Zoom during Covid.

    #2084996
    akuperma
    Participant

    The only time Eretz Yisrael has been peaceful is when it was part of a very large and powerful empire, and was in the middle of said empire, and had no serious civil disorders (probably due to having eliminated all dissent). This is rare (briefly under the Romans after they got rid of most of us, until the Arabs came). It was also fairly peaceful for a while under the Turks (from when they had solid control of the region, until when they didn’t).

    If Ha-Shem wants us to have a quiet peaceful out of the way place, we would have been taught seamanship and moved to someplace that was then uninhabited (3000+ years ago) and far removed from other peoples, such as New Zealand or Iceland or Madagascar. Eretz Yisrael is at a cross roads of many cultures and by its location will usually be “in the news”, so we should assume that has something to do with Ha-Shem having placed us there.

    #2085002
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    moishe – you are either clueless or have an odd sense of humor. care to enlighten us?

    #2085001
    HaKatan
    Participant

    @moishekapoieh:
    For ashkenazim, it would be easier to call it “medinas yisrael” rather than the the sefardic (adapted by the Zionists for shmad) “medinat…”.

    You happen to be right, though, that Eretz Yisrael should not be conflated with, liHavdil, the Zionist State, and the violence in question is a matter pertaining to the Zionist State, not to E”Y.

    So, a better topic would have been “Violence in the State of Israel”.

    Regarding the Zionist propaganda nonsense about 2,00 years of torture and death, while there certainly have been occasional periods of immense suffering in this long galus, nonetheless, the Zionist State is the worst galus, galus under the Yevsektzia (the Jewish communists) as Rav Elchonon Wasserman put it.

    The Zionists also played a significant role in WW II, both spiritually and physically.

    So, to be clear, no, “we” do not have our own “medina”. The Zionists have invaded portions of E”Y and falsely declared that the Zionists represent all Jews and that their Zionist State is the “Jewish” State when in fact it is only the “Zionist”, not Jewish, State.

    #2085013
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    The title says yisreal instead of yisrael. Very, very, important.

    #2085016
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Hakatan,

    You came. You lied. Now run away before we post the truth.

    #2085015
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Rav Elchonon HY”D was not alive during any Zionist State. Not the Davidic, Hasmonean, Herodian, Agrippian, Kochbian, or even The Modern State.

    #2085050

    Rav Elchonon did live under real Evsektsia so he would know the difference. And so many Jews escaped communist part of the world to Israel both after WW2 and later on. Of course, evsektsiya members were murdered by soviets and Nazis by that time

    #2085077
    HaKatan
    Participant

    @n0mesorah:
    Your screen name is instructive here.

    If your idea of truth is what the Zionists propagandize then, unfortunately, you can’t recognize the truth.

    If your idea of Zionist history begins in 1948 then, unfortunately, you are missing many decades of Zionist history (and the gross misfortune to Jews that came with that) which preceded that, and during which Rav Elchonon very much did live.

    The Zionists did not suddenly snap their fingers in 1948 and create their idolatrous shmad state. They amassed almost $100,000,000 dollars (in 1940s money) in weapons first. They also had a provisional government prior to 1948. Etc.

    #2085204
    user176
    Participant

    I find it sad the Mr Klein did a great job of answering the question and you are all doing the exact opposite. Arguing over “Eretz” or “Medinat.” Talking down on other Jews because they are “Zionists” or “Anti Zionists.” Calling each other out for misrepresenting the truth. Denying that The tragedies even have anything to do with us and our actions, but rather Hashems plan. These past 15 posts should be an eye opening example as to why we are suffering as a nation. We are living in 5782. Every Jew reading this has an obligation to go ask their Rabbi “How should I feel about the Zionist who does tremendous things for Am Yisrael?” “How should I feel about the ultra orthodox who rejects Medinat Yisrael?” “Should I love him as a fellow Jew even though we disagree? Or should I speak negatively about him and make sure everyone knows that he doesn’t represent the true Jew?” This right here in this thread is exactly the type of sinat hinam that the Rabbis talk about. WAKE UP. If you think that shambling Zionism or Anti Zionism is going to bring the geula you are forgetting the great principal of Ribi Akiva.

    #2085273
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    There is a story where Meshiach came wearing a bend down hat. When he went to chasiddish shul, he was told here we bend the hat up. When he went to a litvish shul with a bent up hat, he was told here we wear it bent down. Then he went to a Young israel and he was told what do you need a hat for? So he said until you can agree on a hat I am going back.

    #2085283
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Everyone knows that Moishiach will be wearing a kipah segurah….no Borselino, no Shtreimlach, no Fedora…..why is that so difficult for everyone to agree .

    #2085279
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Or maybe he left because of the mixed kiddush and blatant violation of tznius, or if he came a few decades ago, he would certainly leave because of the mixed dancing

    #2085280
    Chaylev Halyah
    Participant

    @n0mesorah:
    The Davidic dynasty has as much connection to modern Zionism as it did to the Byzantine Empire.

    #2085349
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Chaylev,

    In other words; we have as much connection to the Byzantine Empire, as the Davidic Dynasty has to Modern Zionism.

    #2085358
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Avira,

    If your litvishe roshei yeshivos stayed, why would he be the one to leave? Are you insinuating that mashiach can be enticed by mixed parties?!?

    #2085404
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Hakatan,

    Thanks for the response. Assets and politics is not a State. It is impossible to tell me that a Jewish State is against the Torah, without knowing what a State is.

    I am less of a Zionist then you and all the other horsemen of the empty wagon. There is no need for a few Yidden from Poland and Ukraine to remake history for me. Most yidden know that Judaism thrived before, during, and after Eastern Europe. If you would have retained some objectivity, you would realize that you and your ilk have co-opted all the talking points of Herzl and Weizmann and whatever. Too much time fighting Zionism, and too little thinking.

    Say whatever you want about the here and the now. You have no right to deny all the Jewish blood that was constantly spilled in unthinkable numbers and unimaginable ways. I know enough to know that you have turned your back on as many of our ancestors, as any anti-religious Zionist. There is more to Hashem’s world than Pro-and-Anti-whatever-Jewish-identification-is-fashionable syndrome.

    #2085953
    HaKatan
    Participant

    No Mesorah:
    That was a fairly long non-response posing as a response to my attempt to clarify to you why you should not have called me a liar.

    Sovereignty over a territory is forbidden. The Zionists claim sovereignty over portions of Eretz Yisrael, and have fought multiple wars, still ongoing, to support that claim. All of this is, of course, a severe violation of the Torah’s laws.

    The objective reality is not that “Judaism thrived before, during, and after Eastern Europe”, but rather that it took a big hit in the years leading up to the Holocaust. Nobody can stop you from believing in your own version of history, though.

    Rav Miller, who was there pre-WW II, testified in his book about the dramatic abandonment of Torah for Zionism and other -isms.

    Rav Elchonon Wasserman, who lived there, too, also wrote that the since the two idols (literally) that (some) Jews then worshiped were Nationalism and Socialism, therefore, Hashem responded with the ascendancy of the Nazi (Nationalist Socialist) party and its threats and dangers which, thanks to Zionism and other factors, turned into the Holocaust.

    These (and others who said similarly) are gedolei Torah who were there on the ground. It is silly for anyone to decide close to a century later that they disagree with them, as you have indicated.

    The talking points of the Zionists are that Judaism and the Jewish people need to change to become a gentile, godless and nation-state based Nationalist nation. By supporting the State of Israel and Zionism, it is you who are supporting those ideals.

    Jewish blood was not “constantly spilled in unthinkable numbers and unimaginable ways.” That is Zionist propaganda. As I mentioned, there certainly have been many, many, many difficult times in the galus including many, many, many incidents of Jewish blood having been spilled CH”V. But that was not a “constant” occurrence. The Zionists want you to think it was so that you choose to worship their idol State.

    Finally, the Torah is that with which we identify. Period. It has nothing to do with being “fashionable” or otherwise.

    #2086052
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    My issue is your cheapening of Jewish Blood. Can you cite the one peaceful decade for Russian Jews in two centuries under the Romanov Czars? One hundred fifty years of inquisition is not a constant? The yidden in Yemen never had equality, at any point that they excelled they were immediately harassed into poverty by the locals. A wretched existence for centuries. How about the German States? Jewish town after Jewish homestead that completely disappeared from massacres and poverty. A three, four, or five hundred year struggle to survive often ending with zero survivors. Not even a graveyard as a monument.

    The first millennia after the churban was a testimonial to the wits every Jew. To the East, there was constant revolution and palace intrigue, on top of vicious ideological ‘holy’ wars, to the extent that smaller Jewish communities took on gentle identities. Egypt ended a centuries long tolerance of yidden by killing them all. To the West, Jews were so persecuted – as was required by law – that it is hard to find historical references to them. This went on all over the globe, except where the Jews had self rule and the means to deter their neighbors. Borders were shifting on all continents. And Jews were always in the wrong place.

    This went on until the Moslem conquest. Jews than had their own semi-states all around the Mediterranean. This created a buffer against constant oppression. But on the Arabian Peninsula, almost all the Jews were wiped out in the Muslim Conquest. The same pattern happened in Northern Europe. Mass murder spurred the sovereignty of the ghetto. But after two bloody centuries, there was no more Jewish England. And France never rebuilt what was. Germany which did grow and even thrive, went over a thousand years of murderous animosity, to less than a hundred years of security.

    Poland was an inviting country that fits your definition. Lithuania etc as well as Ukraine could also, if we ignore all the writings from the sixteenth thru the eighteenth centuries, about the constant fear of exile, jail, extortion, bandits, and progroms.

    This is without going into the ceaseless awfulness of being caught in middle of the Greek Empires. As well as the Roman atrocities.

    Maybe they forgot to tell you what an awful place people make me this planet. See China. Yemen. Sudan. Belarus. Etc. If it makes you feel better, you can quote me as saying that China is really a secret Zionist country.

    #2086060
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    If your camp identifies with the Torah, what is so unique about Zionism that no Torah applies to them? As in you deal with this one issue so different than every other threat to Torah.

    #2086059
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Gadol,

    Now, Why would make believe that we all agree Moshiach is not a woman?

    #2086101
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “Now, Why would make believe that we all agree Moshiach is not a woman?”

    OK. I’ll stipulate that it could be Moishiach BAAS Dovid and a sheitel or snood could be the headcovering of choice.

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