Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › Esther's Queenship
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March 4, 2015 4:06 am at 4:06 am #615078Patur Aval AssurParticipant
The Gemara in Sanhedrin 74a-b discusses aveiros which are ???? ??? ?????. The gemara says:
?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????
Shortly thereafter the Gemara asks:
??? ???? ?????? ????
Rashi explains:
?????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????
Lichora, there is another issur that should have been ???? ??? ????? since it was ??????? – the Rambam in Hilchos Melachim 1:5 writes:
??? ??????? ??? ??????
Esther should have had to give up her life rather than be queen.
The Gemara gives two answers:
??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????
Rashi explains:
???? ???? ???. ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?? ????
???? ????. ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??
Both of these answers would also explain why being queen wasn’t ???? ??? ????? – Achashverosh appointed her as queen but she didn’t actually do anything, and it was ????? ????.
In fact this actually reads beautifully as the Gemara’s question and answer. Though one could argue that the whole issue never begins because the issur is only to appoint a queen over the Jewish Kingdom.
March 4, 2015 4:22 am at 4:22 am #1063037☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantJewish ????? weren’t married?
March 4, 2015 4:32 am at 4:32 am #1063038Patur Aval AssurParticipantThey were, but their wives weren’t ???? like Esther was.
March 4, 2015 4:34 am at 4:34 am #1063039JosephParticipantRambam’s issur seems only to be for a woman to be the queen regnant over the Jewish nation not merely the queen consort. If so, that means Esther wasn’t even a problematic question regarding Rambam’s issur since only Achashveiros was regnant and Esther only consort.
Though it does raise the question how the Jewish nation did in fact have a queen regnant on occasion. Perhaps those instances were violations of Jewish law.
March 4, 2015 4:55 am at 4:55 am #1063040oomisParticipantI actually posed this very question to my rov, because there is an inyan that Esther was actually married to Mordechai, in which case, was she guilty of arayos. My rov said she was an anusah ,(which we learn from “vatilakach,” she was TAKEN, against her will).
March 4, 2015 5:06 am at 5:06 am #1063041☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantWhat kind of ???? do you think Esther was?
March 4, 2015 5:20 am at 5:20 am #1063042Patur Aval AssurParticipantRambam’s issur seems only to be for a woman to be the queen regnant over the Jewish nation not merely the queen consort.
Perhaps.
My rov said she was an anusah
Why would that help if it’s ???? ??? ??????
March 4, 2015 5:29 am at 5:29 am #1063043JosephParticipantRambam’s issur seems only to be for a woman to be the queen regnant over the Jewish nation not merely the queen consort.
Perhaps.
Why is “perhaps” the best response you can muster to my point? There’s a great difference between queen regnant and queen consort that its silly to pretend both are the same or the same application made on one is naturally applicable to the other.
March 4, 2015 5:39 am at 5:39 am #1063044Patur Aval AssurParticipantWhat kind of ???? do you think Esther was?
The kind that wear frilly white gowns with multicolored sequins down the front?
March 4, 2015 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1063045theprof1ParticipantEsther was a Queen Consort. The Queen ruler in eretz yisroel was a concept of eis lasos and the Rambam would admit that in such a case it was OK. She ruled with the assent of Sanhedrin. Wives of ancient kings were either a Queen if the king wanted her as such, or a princess. The women in the harem were just royals with no title. A queen’s consort is never a king.
March 4, 2015 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1063046Patur Aval AssurParticipantits silly to pretend both are the same or the same application made on one is naturally applicable to the other.
The Rambam “pretends” that any position of authority is the same as being a king.
March 4, 2015 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #1063047☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantWhat kind of authority did Esther have?
March 4, 2015 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1063048oomisParticipantShe had the kind of authority that every clever wife has over her husband.
March 4, 2015 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1063049☕️coffee addictParticipanti dont get the op’s question
March 4, 2015 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #1063050JosephParticipantThe Rambam “pretends” that any position of authority is the same as being a king.
A queen consort has no inherent authority.
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