ethics

Ethics are important. Buy a few books on ethics and start reading.

Well “ethics” is a subjective idea. Ethics relates to the code of behavior which is the social norm or which is commanded by religion. Without an anchor everyones ethics will vary. Teaching someone not to cheat(ethical in most societies) or anything ethical keeps a society stable. However,this of course is not the idea(making up what one thinks is ethical) of the Torah because we all know that there is only one code of ethics and that comes from the Torah.

2 things:

Are you saying that someone who cheats will forever be an unethical person? What about teshuva?

Also, generally ethics courses have nothing to do with learning how to be ethical. Besides, there’s enough gray area in the field that no one can really define it- the names you mention all argue about it. For instance, Kant said Truth is the ultimate morality, that to lie is always immoral. But we as Jews do not believe that. We know Hashem Himself lied to Avraham once in order to spare his feelings. According to Kant, if your wife asks you if she looks fat in this dress and you say no (even though she does), that is immoral. Hillel would say you did the right thing.

The class will probably focus on the different philosophies of ethics, not “how to be ethical”. However, be prepared, some of that WILL conflict with what we believe as frum Jews. I suggest you find a Rav to talk to for when/if any issues come for you during the semester.

I disagree, you can teach a person morals and ethics. It might not register right away, and a person might not change right away, but the more it is shown to a person, the more effect it will have on them and eventually that person will choose to make changes in the way they think and live their lives.

We see this all the time in Baalei Teshuva who see the Truth in Torah and the Yiddishkeit and choose to “return” to Torah and its truth and values. We see this in a ger tzedek who chooses Yiddishkeit and Torah because of the way a Jew lives their lives, their moral compass, the ethics and values the Torah teaches, etc.

We see this in anyone who turns their lives around as they grow and mature and build character. We see this even from children who shoplift in stores and learn how immoral this is and grow up to repent and not do things like this in their adult lives.

So yes, you can teach and learn ethics and morality.

Hi taking a break.

It seems your disinterested attitude is influencing your approach to how you see this class. You are looking at it very cut and dry.

I dont think ethics is a black and white thing. I think people need to be made aware and hopefully, with each situation, they will choose the right thing and grow.

I also believe a person, educated in ethics, CAN BE an ethical person. One can argue if they are not an ethical person, then the only reason they do the right thing is because someone who can punish them is watching them, suggesting they would not be ethical if they think they can get away with not doing the right thing. I dont think such is the case with all people.

It does not have to be your favorite subject, but you can get a lot out of it.

1. Those books take mental effort to get into. You have to squeeze that brain to get into it, and if others in the class bring up good points of discussion, you may end up liking it.

2. Each subject not only is to learn the “pshat” level of that subject, but they also develop parts of the brain and develop a nimbleness in thinking that develop your intellect and you as a person.

I say stick it out and try harder. You may find yourself passionately committed to an idea being challenged or find you have an understanding of a concept that you want to share or clarify for others.

If you have some points of difficulty, share them here with us. We can give you feedback. I would not mind.

Philosophy was actually a minor of mine in college. I am sure I forgot a lot, but I believe I kept the skill of sticking to a concept or idea with tenacity, which helps me learn now.

Like pushups, at first it’s really difficult, but stick with it and when you get stronger, you will get enjoyment.

Are you saying that 15 weeks isn’t long enough to assimilate such important concepts, or are you saying that the concepts being taught aren’t practical enough? I’m confused.

Well, the class doesn’t sound like it’s supposed to be practical.

Hi taking a break.

I am glad you feel a little better about the class. Attitude is very key to motivation and learning.

I do just want to comment that while 15 weeks does not make an education; it can. It does add up and it is a building block, if you let it, to your overall education.

Just like many bricks make up a sturdy wall, each class does the same thing. It may seem like watching a plant grow, and you dont see the immediate results, but growth will take place

Remember, there is no magic pill to knowledge. At least none that is legal and without great risk.

Stick to the plan, even if the going gets tough, and you will feel the reward when all is said and done.

Also, I am serious. Go to a bookstore and glance at the “Idiots Guide” or “Dummies” books for Philosophy or Rousseau, himself, and see if they have a page on Jean-Jacques. There are also many digests and crash courses in the Philosophy section. It may help break it down enough to where the teacher will realize you “chop” what the philosopher is about. The more you “chop”, the more you get to thinking.

Hatzlacha and continue to stay tough with your goals.

Hi taking a break.

AWESOME!! Literally!

Your post made my day. Thank you for sharing your learning process. I really got a lot out of reading how you took the bull by the horns on this. I can tell you did a great job just by the way you describe how you have to show the advantages and incompleteness of the theory. I bet you did a great evaluation!

I think your efforts are huge and as a fellow Jew, I get a sense of pride knowing you are taking such an admirable approach in this endeavor.

I want to share that once I had read that a Ben Torah tries to handle everything that comes their way better than the average person.

They key is “handle” and regardless of the outcome, even though I am sure you will get a great grade because anything you put sincere effort into is going to yield good things, you may always look at this class, which you once were not overly thrilled about, as one of your most meaningful academic experiences.

I can tell you feel a great sense of accomplishment. And you should!

Awesome job!!! : D

Is the class still on the political theorists or are you moving to another area of philosophy?

If you have the time to share, who is next on the agenda?

Hi taking a break.

Thank you for your kind words. They mean a lot. I am sure everyone here is happy to see you tackling this endeavor and wishing you great success!

Immanuel Kant is a big one in Existentialism, an interesting branch of philosophy. You will probably study his idea of Categorical Imperative, which can come in useful as a back up for non-believers who want to figure out how to determine what is or is not moral.

If you want to run anything by your pals here, please feel free!

Have a fantastic week!!

Ethics are what the Halacha says they are. However, there is wisdom among Goyim and philosophers may have been mechaven to the emet. Rav Soloveichik, in fat, used philosophical concepts to explain Tora.

As for making people ethical, each person has inborn weaknesses. Halacha or philosophy might make an innately unethical person less unethical or it may give him terutzim that will result in a chillul Hashem. It can only make him ethical if he seeks to break his yetzer hara. Thus, the record holder for longest prison sentence in American history (845 years) is a “Chossid” who bilked an insurance company out of so much money that it went bankrupt causing thousands of people to lose their policies and annuities in addition to the stockholders who lost their investments and the employees who lost their jobs.