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References always say their friends are “amazing”, and you cant limit yourself to dating people who your family knows well.
How can you really see through the facade and see what the person is really like, when not being observed?
We all know Shidduchim are in the hands of Hashem, but we have to do our Hishtadlus.
How were you able to get the REAL story on a person’s Midos BEFORE entering into a Shidduch?
It’s the million dollar question…
I came to the conclusion that it’s very unlikely that someone should be able to get the real story on a person’s midos before a shidduch.
My advice: Hishtadlus and loads of davening. Tell Hashem that you’re trusting Him cause your kind of in the dark here…and He’ll come through for you. He always does.
Good Luck!
Watch how they treat “commoners”.
Watch how they talk to and about their immediate family.
See how they treat their TECHNOLOGICAL DEVICES around you.Or rather,the other way around.
you can also discuss their attitudes about working on themselves-that will show if they are open to change and improvement……
Ask to see them in person, like at a chasseneh, or vort. That will tell you if its your idea of amazing.
I would suggest asking the reference to describe the person. Besides for “amazing” listen to what they talk about first. Those are usually the qualities about the person that stand out.
Tefillah is vital but do not underestimate hishtadlus. I davened great and was given a hard package. I kinda wonder if i was too trusting and i should have done more hishtadlus or if Hashem had that plan for me no matter what i wouldv done..
mytake…well-said
“Everyone is “amazing”- how can you tell who really has great Midos?”
Same way you determine someone is the best bachur in the yeshiva.
No 1. When people describe how good they are, what are they raving about? What are they omitting as far as the must middos you need?
1. Speak to their roommates, they are the ones who can usually give an accurate description of the individual’s middos.
2. When obtaining information from friends, observe if good middos are from the ‘First’ qualities mentioned to describe the individual. This way you can be sure that the individual really possesses that quality.
If they dont just say “amazing”, If they really express their thoughts about it, then you know its true.
I’ve got a very close relative who was married to the sweetest girl you’ve ever met. She ended up being verbally abusive. Go figure. They got the greatest info. (oh, she’s got a heart of gold! etc.) B”H, they’re both remarried, but, IMO, it’s nearly impossible to know what a person’s REALLY like – unless you live with them. All we can do is daven for our bashert and do our hishtadlus. The rest is up to Hashem.
Personally, I have no great faith in “references.” After all, what is someone who was specifically asked to be a reference, going to say about the boy or girl, except for the nicest of things? Granted, they might be worthy of those nice words, but you will learn nothing else.
TBT, your story is very telling (no pun intended). My husband and I, (and now our children), never leave a mess on our restaurant table. Sometimes we cannot actually clean everything up, but when we can, we do, and when we cannot, we leave the table as neatly as possible for the waiter or busboy to take care of it.
find out what his chevrah is like that tells alot about the person
Most of us are good at behaving in a controlled situation. People are ready for the regular stuff on a date. The trick is to see them when something unexpected happens, like cleaning up instead of relying on the hotel staff (see above). How to shake things up (espically without looking bad) is not easy?
I knew an older gentleman who had a friend (ben brit) seriously dating an Aina Yehudia (about 65 years ago). The man who was dating said that the girl’s family were not at all against him for his religion. To which, my older friend said that the next time he is in the young girl’s parent’s house to drop a drinking glass and pretend it was an accident. Well, he did, and all kinds of words came out. That ended that.
I’m going to have to agree with observanteen- NOTHING can truly tell you what someone is REALLY like until you live with them. That’s why ppl.like asking room mates, although it’s not the same relationship so still won’t give you a perfect picture.
You have to daven and obviously try and find out what you can.
When you say good middos, you want someone who is working on themselves, or someone who just naturally is more mild?
When I look into a boy we don’t go calling everyone. We’ll ask a few people, and his rabbi. My mother can tell if the rabbi really loves the boy or not. The rest-his middot and the like u have to find out YOURSELF. Everyone CAN have the best middot u just have to see for yourself. I’m very into noticing if the boy does or not. B”H B”H Hashem has given me a great gift that I see people (boys and girls) middot clearly.
not sure if anyone said this or not, but learn HOW to ask the RIGHT questions, and listen closely to HOW they speak.
Watch them very carefully. Watch how they treat other people who may be percived as “inferior” socially. How a man treats his rabbi won’t tell you as much as how he treats the janitor.
Also watch in terms of stressful situations. While not everyone is perfect under stress (G-d knows I’m not) its still a good indicator.
Also look at who his friends are.
advice from rabbi miller ztzl: always subtract a little from what people say about a shidduch. you need to read in between the lines. if they say he has amazing midos (and they say no more), he probably is more like your avg bochur or maybe less. but lets say, if two different people you ask go on and on about a certain character trait or mida he has, then you can be sure that he is above avg . everybody exaggerates a little because they dont know you . but from a good friend or family member , you can expect less exaggeration. btw rabbi millers tape ‘the 10 commandments of marriage’ is a must must must to hear for anyone who reads this comment, young or old, married or single.
Ofcourse-examples on the top of my head-one boy was talking about other peope non stop, and not in such a nice way. A different boy told me how ‘stupid’ and annoying his sister was (he was trying to be cute). With girls I see it easily. Most of my friends have great, beautiful middot but some, just the words that come out of their mouth shock me. (Not curses or anything like that, just stupiddd things)
observanteen:You say he married the “sweetest girl”and she ended up being “verbally abusive”….think about that….
I dislike when people pride themselves on “chapping” people’s entire essences in 2 minutes!!
I’m willing to bet if you told them you “chap” them as fast,they’ll LAUGH and say,”Not me!I’m complex….”
“I like the idea, but it isnt done in any circles besides the very young Chassidish or very young very Heimish.”
That’s not true. My ‘circle’ isn’t really heimish and we usually like to see the person before.
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