May 24, 2023 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #2192893torahlifeParticipant
Why is it that famous balei tzidakah, among many others, often make extravagant affairs which creates pressure? Granted some people require a big venue for all attendees but why multiple full musical bands and choirs or way too much food?
20 years ago an effort was made to get the waste and pressure under control, but many if the signees continued attending these affairs…because its the hand that feeds…why couldn’t there have been principled people that sign and stick to it…if enough leaders would take a firm stand, many middle class and poor people would be helped…
Who is a real ball tzidakah and who is doing it for attention? Who is a real leader that truly cares and who is a push over?
We need moshiachMay 24, 2023 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #2192957commonsaychelParticipant
You posted the same topic under a different heading, I guess your an environmentalist, reuse & recycleMay 24, 2023 6:19 pm at 6:19 pm #2192958n0mesorahParticipant
None of this is true. Those who are being pressured create the pressure. The obscene extravagance of others is just an excuse not to face their own mental instability.May 24, 2023 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #2192966
Rav Hunter said years ago that it is within the spirit of giving and to leave them alone
If you tell the wealthy to be stingy by themselves then the same middah carry’s over to their tzedakah
Why can’t people just do their own thing?
I’m a simple person who makes simple affairs even though BH I can afford more. Do your own thing and people will respect you for not bowing to peer pressureMay 24, 2023 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #2192960natbParticipant
You are 100% correct These extravagant affairs are not needed, not appreciated, and not even enjoyed
When the Gerrer Rebbe, the Lev Simcha zt”l, made strict takonos he both kept them himself and never attended any simcha that didn’t keep those takonos
The famous story back then was of a gvir that came to him to explain why he was not keeping the takonos because he understood that the Rebbe meant it for the poor and middle-class but BH he is well off and can afford it. The Rebbe responded that if you can afford it, then buy yourself another Rebbe
But the other side of the issue is that the middle-class doesn’t have to feel that they have to keep up with the “Joneses”. They don’t have to give into the kids selfish desires either. Be a mensch. Do what you can afford.May 24, 2023 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #2192998AviraDeArahParticipant
Mentsch, it’s true that some gedolim have held off on criticizing some gvirim because they think that they’ll become stingy with the poor. That doesn’t translate into a live and let live idea; it’s a strategic, targeted reason for not giving criticism that is warranted. Because it’s not torahdig to indulge in gashmius, whether you could afford it or not.May 24, 2023 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #2192999anonymous JewParticipant
Noone forces anyone to overspend. I had a budget for my daughter’s wedding and she had a budget for a small Simcha for my grandsons bar mitzvah.May 24, 2023 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #2193000Neville Chaim BerlinParticipant
“Who is a real ball tzidakah and who is doing it for attention?”
Who cares? Do you really think people in need should go without resources if the means of those resources’ donation was too flashy for your liking? The money going to good causes. Why complain?May 25, 2023 12:41 am at 12:41 am #2193017SQUARE_ROOTParticipant
In March 2002, the Moetzes Gedolai Torah issued a public statement, which decreed that the Vort ceremony be COMPLETELY ELIMINATED, to reduce the cost of getting married.
That decree was published in Jewish Observer magazine, which was the official magazine of the Agudath Israel organization (at that time).
That decree was completely ignored, even by the most “Frum” Jews, and even by people who claimed total loyalty to “Daas Torah”.
Soon after, the decree was completely forgotten by almost-everybody [except me, because my special midah is that I remember things that other people forget.
Many people, both Jews and non-Jews, told me that I have a “photographic memory”].
PS: We “Frum” Jews spend too much on liquor.May 25, 2023 12:44 am at 12:44 am #2193014akupermaParticipant
What matters most is what the Bnei Torah do, not the “wealthy and famous” who are rarely if ever Bnei Torah. The Baal ha-Battim in many cases are still recovering from the Holocaust (and from the last few millenia), and want to show off that they “made it” in spite of everything the goyim threw at us. While a Ben Torah has better things to do, and sees our current and probably temporary prosperity has coming from Ha-Shem rather than our own efforts, the perspectives of the Am ha-Haretz are understandable.
I don’t think I have ever deleted a post of yours, or even considered it, but I was very surprised to see that those harsh stereotypes were written by you.May 25, 2023 10:02 am at 10:02 am #2193059Get-r-dunParticipant
As always the poor people telling the rich people how to spend their money you’re nothing but a communistMay 25, 2023 10:02 am at 10:02 am #2193062Neville Chaim BerlinParticipant
I think those evil wealthy baal habatim should stop funding the ungrateful yeshivish for one year and see how you guys like it then.
Not saying all yeshivish people are ungrateful, but clearly some are as you can see on this thread.May 25, 2023 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #2193111
by extension lets criticize fund raising
A huge/gashmiosdik tzedakah auction just took place
A huge amount of money went into the prizes that could have gone to the tzedakah instead, so cut that out, it’s “gashmiosdik”
Think of big weddings as a fund raiser for rich balei batim
They spend a lot of money on the wedding (which is technically a mitzvah) and by extension give more money to tzedakahMay 25, 2023 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #2193112
I reject the original premise
Wealthy balei batum do not create a “keeping up with the jonses” attitude. We all know we are in a different category
It’s your next door neighbor who can’t afford it who does it anyway.
Choose good neighbors. Choose a good shul where there is no pretense. In my shul every kiddush is the same rich or poor, Most weddings are basic and those that are not, I have yet to see anyone feel compelled to keep up with the rich mispallilim.
So be a good example. The next simcha you make, dial it down, make it basic and set a good example.
I am curious
Why harp on this and not the mansions going up in lakewood with $250K chandeliers? I have a much bigger problem with that than weddingsMay 28, 2023 12:21 am at 12:21 am #2193284@fakenewsParticipant
A certain well known wealthy person I am familiar with, makes bog standard chasunahs with just a leather guest list.
(Iirc, at least one wedding was the takanah package just more guests. And no he did not get the takanah discount, since he went over the first allowance)May 28, 2023 12:02 pm at 12:02 pm #2193397Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
I suggest yeshivish invite some of the gvirim to give seminars on how to emter the business world and to succeed there. Even if, in your opinion, a particular gvir is “keeping up with the joneses”, yeshiva bochrim can take the good from the bad.
Maybe, if someone expand to the gvir about maalos tzedaka and then disclose to him the secret (that is usually not mentioned in the appeals to him) that the biggest tzedoka is to help someone with making a living, the gvir can take some of the more aspiring bochrim as apprentices.May 28, 2023 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2193427MarxistParticipant
When I saw “Affairs” I thought you meant adultery for a second.May 30, 2023 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #2194069135847Participant
The middle class and the once were Bale Batfishes now poor rchm”l feel that they have to keep up with the “Joneses”. Be a mensch dear richest NO! You cannot do what you can afford.
If you can afford then you can build yourself up a house a little nicer than others, according to Rashi, but to explode your taaveh in public that’s a geius witch has a terrible smell. The only ones that can really put a stop to this are the rabayim who are true to their talmudim and mispallelim,
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