August 4, 2008 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #587964
Is it right to go on an expensive, luxury holiday when other families in your neighborhood can’t afford food for Shabbos?August 4, 2008 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #619814lgbgMember
um why not exactly?
its like saying : the kliens next door never have steak for supper, so maybe i shouldnt serve it to my family.August 4, 2008 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #619815WolfishMusingsParticipant
Yes, it is right.
A person is required to give 10% of his income to tzedaka. He can even go as high as 20% if he likes. Beyond that, he is not required to go at all.
Using your logic, no one should ever spend a cent on any discretionary item, since there is *always* someone in the neighborhood who doesn’t have food for Shabbos, can’t get the funds for yeshiva tuition, needs money to marry off a child, etc.
The WolfAugust 4, 2008 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #619816tzippiMember
You know, I fargin the vacationers. They may not be paying for their neighbors’ food but they may well be sponsoring them their tuition shortfall. Not enough info here.
Now if you were asking, look, I am extremely generous to local causes, and can also afford a generous vacation. Is it right of me to take that vacation because there are families nearby struggling? Different story. As the spectator, unless I were a rav, I won’t ask that question.August 4, 2008 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #619817Native IsraeliMember
if you are giving your share of tzedakah why not?August 4, 2008 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #619818feivelParticipant
noAugust 4, 2008 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #619819
Its a bit different then having steak for supper which is a personal thing hidden in your home. But going on expensive holidays is like having an expensive car which is showy. I know of many wealthy people that can’t bring themselves to buy a Lexus because a person who doesn’t have money looks at it and thinks that that money he used for a luxury, I need for necessities. Isn’t a luxury holiday the same thing?August 5, 2008 1:09 am at 1:09 am #619820mosheroseMember
No one needs a spectacular vacation. If you can help out your fellow man, you have no excuse to be selfish.
Sam Berger says: “Using your logic, no one should ever spend a cent on any discretionary item, since there is *always* someone in the neighborhood who doesn’t have food for Shabbos, can’t get the funds for yeshiva tuition, needs money to marry off a child, etc.”
Well, no, not really, Berger. Hashem gives you money to help out other people. You have no right spending it on expensive, frivoulous things if it can help out others.August 5, 2008 2:38 am at 2:38 am #619821beaconParticipant
the topics in the Coffee Room is getting funnier and funnier…I’ll blame it on the time of year..August 5, 2008 3:00 am at 3:00 am #619822Think BIGMember
You are all missing the posters point I think. You need a vacation, go! But be reasonable. The question is more should any Jew spoil themselves in the lap of luxuiry, live ostentatously, etc. Many gedolei mussar would say not. and that is without considering the fact that many can’t put bread on the table. The phrase, “if you’ve got it, flaunt it” as regards to money, is not a Torah concept. There are some gevirim who live comfortably but far below what they can afford, because thay believe in living simply. (But they are not stingy when it comes to tzeddaka) Admittedly this is a very high madreiga and attainable by very few.
was this the point you were trying to make noitallmr?
Another consideration would be the inevitable stress and raising of the bar of the rest of the community. This is an unavoidable fact, as was widely discussed in the chassunah takanos, but which can be applied to vacations as well.
Besides, what are you teaching your kids?
I heard a cute but sad story from a New York speaker (dont remember his name, but well known speaker) That he overheard two teenagers talking about what they did for vacation. the first said he went to the Bahamas, or some other exotic place. The second said, “yeah, we did that a couple of years ago. It’s so boring.” so what did you do?, asks the first. The second answered, “nothing. we just went to Florida.”
so there, noitall, three suggestions why one should take pause before taking an expensive vacation.August 5, 2008 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #619823lgbgMember
first what do you call an expensive holiday?
second i don’t really see the difference. in both cases it just proves that our generation has a lack of the middah called fargining a fellow yid.August 5, 2008 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #619824Native IsraeliMember
well i say if you have the money for that vacation, go ahead and enjoy…if u feel that you are popping ppls eyes out and your staying home—-then kol hakoved….but hello if you have money for vacation–go have a grand time—-but don’t brag a word about it to your neighbors especially if they have no funds for suchAugust 5, 2008 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #619825namelessMember
I personally am not jealous at those who flaunt their swanky lifestyle. I envy those who are able to give tzedakah in massive amounts!
I think THAT type of jealousy is ok. Our sages tell us ‘Kinas Sofrim, Tarbeh Chochmoh’
So people, next time you have the urge to ‘outdo’ your rich neighbour, never mind the lexus. Instead, give an abundance of tzedakah, publiclly(even if giving it quietly is a bigger mitzvah) because then you’ll encourage your competitors to do the same thing and at the same time, the less fortunate wont be jealous but will admire you. Even if they are jealous, that jealousy would be ok.
Everyone is happy:)))
Good idea, isnt it?August 6, 2008 8:49 am at 8:49 am #619826
Well said nameless…August 6, 2008 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #619827shauleMember
what, they should not enjoy ? people should stop looking at what others are doing… if you do not care and you dont look at others people would be much happier`June 19, 2018 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #1543609👑RebYidd23Participant
The rich should spend their money. It boosts the economy.June 20, 2018 7:36 am at 7:36 am #1543686zahavasdadParticipant
Going to Israel is pretty expensive, Plane tickets are about $1000 round trip, Hotel there are a minimum $100 (and thats for very basic , they are usually more) +food , transportation etc
A 2 week trip to Israel can cost you $7500 or so for a family of 4..Is that Luxourious?June 20, 2018 7:36 am at 7:36 am #1543685anonymous JewParticipant
is it right to spend tens of thousands of dollars to rent the Nassau Coliseum and transport people for an anti Zionist rally when families in your neighborhood ( Kiryas Yoel is the poorest village in the US ) depend on public assistance?June 20, 2018 7:36 am at 7:36 am #1543684CTLAWYERParticipant
People have different levels of wealth and standards of living.
I was born into a comfortable business owner’s family.
I’ve lived through boom and bust.
I give my share, and more, or Tzedakah.
That said, I usually find that people who question what I spend on cars, clothes, my home and its amenities are just plain jealous. They may express it in terms of ‘he could be giving more to help others, if he drove a Chevrolet instead of a Jaguar’ but it is their jealousy showing through.
We are not Essenes of biblical times choosing to live a life of voluntary poverty and deprivation.
If there are those in my neighborhood who lack what to eat, I am more than happy to help feed them, to help educate their children and to help them find employment so that they can provide for themselves. That doesn’t mean I should have to do without things I can afford.
That said it is never appropriate to show off. The discussions of the ‘over the top’ vacations, and vehicles are a sign of the nouveau riche. Established wealth is discreet and not showy.June 20, 2018 7:36 am at 7:36 am #1543680RBS_gimmelParticipant
Ten years later?????June 20, 2018 7:36 am at 7:36 am #1543664jakobParticipant
Spend your money as you like but don’t show it off to people how you spent it,lest it cause a ayin hara or cause it to be taken away from you by Hashem
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